Ever wondered how to successfully navigate a career in dentistry while also mastering the business side of it? Get ready to gain valuable insights from our guest, Bob Affleck from Dental Coach USA, who has made it his mission to help dentists maximise their profits. Listen to his incredible journey, from being a national champion in Arabian horse taming to coaching in the dental industry.
Immerse yourself in a journey where you'll grasp the art of transitioning from perfecting clinical skills to owning a practice. Hear Bob's words of wisdom on the importance of building confidence, understanding problems from comprehensive perspectives, and making sound decisions to ensure successful practice ownership. Learn how coaching can provide a pathway to success by helping to identify needs and connecting with the right specialists.
Finally, explore the challenges of introducing coaching in the UK market, particularly within the dental sector. Gain a deeper understanding of Dental Support Organizations, their impact and the importance of maintaining a personal relationship with patients. Benefit from Bob's experiences with US dentists and how their views on coaching have evolved. Remember, success isn't just about the bottom line, it's also about delivering world-class service and creating a culture that puts patient experience first. So, are you ready to revolutionize your dental practice? Listen in for a fascinating conversation.
Ever wondered how to successfully navigate a career in dentistry while also mastering the business side of it? Get ready to gain valuable insights from our guest, Bob Affleck from Dental Coach USA, who has made it his mission to help dentists maximise their profits. Listen to his incredible journey, from being a national champion in Arabian horse taming to coaching in the dental industry.
Immerse yourself in a journey where you'll grasp the art of transitioning from perfecting clinical skills to owning a practice. Hear Bob's words of wisdom on the importance of building confidence, understanding problems from comprehensive perspectives, and making sound decisions to ensure successful practice ownership. Learn how coaching can provide a pathway to success by helping to identify needs and connecting with the right specialists.
Finally, explore the challenges of introducing coaching in the UK market, particularly within the dental sector. Gain a deeper understanding of Dental Support Organizations, their impact and the importance of maintaining a personal relationship with patients. Benefit from Bob's experiences with US dentists and how their views on coaching have evolved. Remember, success isn't just about the bottom line, it's also about delivering world-class service and creating a culture that puts patient experience first. So, are you ready to revolutionize your dental practice? Listen in for a fascinating conversation.
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode 10 of the Diary of a Dental Coach podcast. We've actually this is our third episode this week, so we've had some amazing, amazing people on here. Yesterday we had Dr Stefan Polter, who's based in Los Angeles, and we talked about masculinity and the impact of mental health and men and how suicide is a big thing that's happening right now and how we can support men with this. Obviously, the day before, we had Dr Raid Ali, who's an implantologist and owner of three different dental practices in Wales. So today we've got a very special guest all the way from the US again. It's Bob Affleck from Dental Coach USA. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, it's such an honor and I'm very flattered to be here today. Thank you for asking me.
Speaker 1:So today our plan actually is to give the UK audience it's predominantly UK audience who watch this to articulate the benefits of coaching and how you have used it in your country and how it's a successful model that I think can be replicated worldwide. So tell us about yourself. You were born in Utah, is that correct?
Speaker 2:That is correct. Yep, I was born in Utah, moved to California when I was probably around 20 years old, so I've been here quite some time, so you can consider me a Californian.
Speaker 1:Tell us about your childhood. What did your parents do?
Speaker 2:So for my parents, I was very fortunate to have a father that did very well in his career. He primarily was a land developer and basically built out different developments like that for housing and things like that, and basically I was also very fortunate to have a father that really was very much one to really listen to motivational tapes, leadership tapes, things that really would help inspire him. And the thing about that was that for me, growing up and being with him as much as I was, I always was in the car with him as he was listening to these tapes. So I think it kind of like passes on when you start listening to those things and really wanting to continue to improve yourself.
Speaker 1:So wow, that's really, really interesting. So your introduction to coaching actually happened at a very, very young age, and I think you were quite fortunate to have a father who didn't encourage you to go into this side of coaching or who were the types of people he used to listen to.
Speaker 2:So well, back then it was like Zig Ziglar, john Rohn and my other favorite one, honestly, was Tony Robbins later on. So there were many, many others that I've really enjoyed listening to. I always tried honestly, even to this day, I get up really early in the morning just to actually get that feed into my brain before I even start my day. I really want to listen to motivational things before I get going and it helps me to actually become more creative, even for my clients as well, I find so. But I can tell you one thing and I just want to kind of bring this backwards a little bit for you and because you did ask the question about what kind of got me into coaching so for me, I actually grew up and was very fortunate to show Arabian horses, and primarily, how I got into Arabian horses was just really because I found that I was not great in sports and all my friends were awesome in sports and I was just not that great.
Speaker 2:So you know, when everybody was winning trophies and everyone was winning all these things, and so for me I really wanted to win all those trophies, that was really a motivation to me. So so basically, one of my friends said hey, you need to go after what your passion is, what you're passionate about, and that was actually horses. And so I actually started showing Arabian horses at the age of 12. And, primarily, when I became, when I turned 16 years old, I actually became a US national champion, yeah, and I think, you know, based on that, that feeling of the excitement and being able to have those goals, to be able to achieve those things I really wanted others to feel that as well. So I think that's where my passion is is really helping others to be successful. So I started working with young kids, helping them, you know, to become good at what they were doing, and then it kind of just fell into everything I did.
Speaker 1:Wow. So from a young age, I think you understood the, your potential, or you understood that by setting yourself goals and and basically working towards something you're able to achieve whatever you you desire really, and I think that's really the essence of true coaching. So you were almost coaching yourself from a very early age and utilizing these influential people are very influential people which which has really served you well in your life.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, yeah for sure. So then I obviously, throughout the years, then got into the dental world and I how did that come about?
Speaker 1:You know, because obviously dentistry is quite, I suppose, niche, isn't it? It's, it's a bit closed off. If you're not a dentist, then it's like absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yes, so how did that come about? So how it actually came about is I was actually brought on with a company that actually dealt in financing dentist and also they had what they call a patient financing program as well. And you know, basically my role in that that company in the very beginning was to figure out how to get into these dental practices and then bring our product into the practice From that point. You know, the one thing I learned, especially for the doctors here in the United States, is that they love to buy things but they just a lot of times they'll just set it on the shelf and it nobody uses it. So then, in order for us to obviously get paid, I had to put together a program to actually get them to actually start using the product in the office.
Speaker 2:So, because this was a patient financing program that we had, what I did is I helped the doctors to see how they could actually increase their cash flow in their practice by decreasing their accounts receivable that they had, and it was all about the educational process that I took their staff or their team through and then also training the whole office, and then it just started to evolve really from that point on where I actually was then approached by a company called Fortune Practice Management, and basically Fortune Practice Management was pretty much starting out here in the United States and I was fortunate to.
Speaker 2:They wanted me to come and actually speak to all of their clients at a convention, and so I went to the convention and at this time and I think that you know you had this in my bio, but at this time Tony Robbins was actually the owner of this company and basically he was the first speaker on stage and so he was. You know, I don't know if you've ever listened to Tony Robbins, have you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. So basically, so you know how big he is and how powerful he is and how he energizes a group of people right.
Speaker 1:So at this time was he quite a big name, even then, oh big time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was. Yeah, without a doubt he was. He was definitely a big name and he's, you know, he basically had already been into his coaching world as well. So he wanted to get into the dental space and so created the practice management group for the dentist and basically, you know, for me that was kind of my, I guess, the time where I had to go on after him, and basically you kind of get in your head all about.
Speaker 2:You know, oh my gosh, am I going to be able to do exactly what Tony Robbins just did and keep these people excited and all that good stuff? And honestly, I got up on stage and froze so I just like my mind went blank, but fortunately I was able to move on and get going in my presentation. But I also then was approached by them after that and they asked me to come and work for them. And I because I was able to see what it is that they were, they were doing for all these people I just really wanted to be a part of that, you know, because they were making such a difference in everyone's life, the lives of all the team members in the practice and the life of the doctor as well, and so that's. I wanted to be a part of that, so that's kind of where that.
Speaker 1:So what was Tony Robbins like in in real life? I mean is, he is strong and macho and powerful in real life. Does he really get you?
Speaker 2:going. He's a giant. I mean, if you look at me, my body, my size, I'm about one of his legs, that's right, that guy is massive. I mean, his hands are gigantic, but he's powerful, he's a very powerful guy.
Speaker 1:So I think it's just his voices and the tone that he uses and the, the energy that you can feel, and it kind of just, you know, naturally just gets you going, doesn't it?
Speaker 2:A thousand percent, yeah. And, and you know, the funny part about working with them is I probably learned more about myself than I did in what I was doing, and I think that that also lifted me up even more to really be able to help others to be successful within their practice.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. So that was when you niched into dentistry, basically.
Speaker 2:Well, I started out in dentistry with the first company, the patient financing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that was more from the sort of finance side of things rather than the dental practice side of things, and then you went into the actual dental practice management.
Speaker 1:I think it'll be interesting this discussion, because I think the UK before we went live on air is probably on the cusp of privatisation and the cusp of dental practices, really coming aware of coaching and really becoming aware of the business side of dental practices and you know some of the things that you sort of almost gave us a little bit of nuggets of information about how to empower the team so that they understand the business of a dental practice, because in essence it is a business and it's something that's nobody really teaches anyone at dental school.
Speaker 1:And those as dentists, we spend a lot of time learning how to do things like cram preps and doing all the dental stuff, but nobody really teaches about business and and and business is is is a skill that requires dedication and learning from the right people.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is absolutely true, very, very true. And you know, I think that the one thing that I've learned from the very beginning is exactly that that dentists in general do not get the training that they need to actually know how to run a business or understand how to run a business. And you know, so you know the one thing I know about a lot of the clients that I work with they really come in with fear but, knowing that they want to have their own private practice, they come in with fear and not a lot of confidence, because because they know that they've got to be the leader in this practice and because they've got to also understand the business systems and how to run a successful practice. So, but my goal with every one of my clients is absolutely to take them and help them to to to eliminate that fear, but also to gain the confidence that they need to be a very successful leader within the practice and in their community as well, to grow their practice.
Speaker 1:And what are your thoughts? I mean, for even in the UK you know there's this transition from being an associate and working for a dentist to practice ownership. Do you think there's a required time period? Do you think everyone should become practice owners or aspire to become practice owners? What are your thoughts? And perhaps newly graduated dentists, how you know what career pathway should they take, both on a financial level as well as, you know, on a personal level, Because I think practice ownership and business and leadership builds you as a person as well, because it develops resilience. It develops a lot of skills that you probably won't utilize whilst working as an associate.
Speaker 2:That 1000%. So what? What I highly recommend for all young doctors coming into practice ownership or have their eyes set on practice ownership is to first of all gain the confidence in their clinical skill first. I think that that's really where, where they really need to look at first is to really be very confident in what it is that they do. But I also think it's extremely important for them to perfect their skill and improve it, based on taking high level courses to help them to actually to do the different types of dentistry that they really would love to do and perfect themselves. On that.
Speaker 2:I mean a lot of our, a lot of my clients that I work with.
Speaker 2:I'll send them on to high level clinical courses to help them to get into implant dentistry, to get into other types of specialized dentistry, so that they can perfect those skills as well.
Speaker 2:But then then basically from there then we you know a lot of times once they've perfected that and feel confident with their own clinical skill, then that's the time to really start working with me as well. But the one thing that we do in the very beginning with our clients is we really want them to have a vision of what their future is going to look like first. So you know, we want our clients to dream big, we want them to create a mission statement, we want them to have a, we want them to create goals and what their, what their future is going to look like. And then, based on that, we do that by what we call start with the end in mind, of where they see themselves for the future, and then we help them to actually either start up their own practice or actually identify a practice to purchase here, you know, obviously here in the United States, but a practice to purchase and then create the practice of their dreams.
Speaker 1:At that point, I think one thing I would add from, obviously, the dental point of view, is that what we're talking about here is really coaching, and I think the thing is, you know, when you're newly graduated it's quite daunting and you do start earning quite a lot of money. You know quite a lot compared to other people when you newly graduate, and I suppose for myself personally as well, there's the thing that you think I'm glad that's over with now I just want to enjoy my life. I don't want to do any more learning so you can end up end up not perhaps, or neglecting doing this additional. You know, honing your skills, refining them, and then you also don't make good decisions, because I think one of the things that really important skill that coaching for me really taught me was good decision making. So sometimes you end up spending thousands of pounds on something that you probably didn't need to do right now and it had no benefit right now either.
Speaker 1:So my advice to the young, younger dentists is that try and get a coach involved right early on, because you know a specific experience dentist, etc. They've been there, they've made the mistakes, they've done everything that you know, all the things that they're going through it. We've all been through it and sometimes you just end up either copying peer groups, copying other people, and what you need is very unique to you and identifying your own strengths and weaknesses not something you can do yourself as well. And I think you need that external person or that external coach to be able to coach you into making good decisions. And that's what I love about the coaching is being able to get you to understand the problem from a 360 angle, and then the coach being able to make the best decision based on all the information. So you've got to really understand the problem before you can solve it, and that's something that I wanted to sort of share with the viewers as well.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of yourself, you know, in terms of your client base, obviously there's the people who are new and want to start out. How do you you know you said you help them create the mission statement. You help them. How do? What kind of things do you help them with? Because obviously, the big issue is either fear of whether it'll work, be the finding the right location, the right practice, the right. It may be that you're buying an existing one or you might want to sell up a squat one. What are your thoughts and how do you gauge what the right thing is for your client?
Speaker 2:So, primarily, what we like to do is we will sit down with them to determine exactly what we feel the right thing for them to do and for us. Let's say, for example, I think this would probably relate better to the UK or wherever they're at, but let's say a startup, okay. So in regards to like a startup, the very first thing that we do with them is we will sit down and create a team of advisors around them that will help them to really look at areas of, you know, the demographic areas we help them to actually look at. Well, first of all, understand the type of practice that they really want to build. So we really want to have a full idea of exactly what that's going to look like, right? So we actually even have dental designers that will work with them. We actually because we want to have them see it visually of what that's going to look like at the very end, we also want to look at space, the office, you know, the space for their practice to be and or location of where that practice will be, and then from there, we will then have the practice built out for them. So we work with the different equipment companies, dental designers. We have a team of people that we surround them with, so it's not just us that does it, but we coordinate everything for that doctor and then make it a very seamless process for them.
Speaker 2:But the most important thing that we do is we actually, once we get to the point of getting ready to open their doors, for them to walk in their door, we actually set them up for success by setting up the proper systems in the practice first.
Speaker 2:So we want to help them hire their first you know person that would come into the practice and help them to build the practice. We will train that person, we will set the systems up and then we will also do their marketing as well. So we get into marketing and we want to. You know, the goal is the day they open their doors. We want to start driving patients through the door, right? So like, immediately get patients to go through that door, because a lot of dentists try to do things on their own and they try to figure things out on their own and a lot of times they do that number one could be because of money or they're thinking they can save money, but the reality of it is that you want to work with dental industry experts that actually truly understand how to help them to be successful. It's well worth doing it right the first time, then trying to figure it out on your own, and then, primarily, you know getting into a practice and waiting for those patients to walk in the door.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense.
Speaker 1:I think this is absolutely key and I think it's really really important point that you've made here, because we all make the mistake of trying to save money and think, you know, oh, these marketing people, I can learn how to do it myself. You know what I mean, and we make the mistake of thinking of sort of dismissing the process of this, because there is, you know, a method of being successful in marketing. There's people who spent many, many years getting experience, knowing what works, knowing what doesn't work Right, and that's wisdom and that's invaluable information that can help you make good decisions, whereas if you think no, no, I'll be different, I'll try and do it myself. I know how to do it. You spend a lot of time wasting your time, because your time is valuable too, and your time is probably better managed being either in the practice yeah, and providing the dentistry or Managing the people that are in the practice, and be making sure that you know that the delivery of services on point of how you want it to be.
Speaker 1:Let the other guys outside deal with the other more complex things of getting the patient in the door, and I think that's a really, really important point, because it is lonely and being an entrepreneur myself, you know it can be quite lonely and I think that the issue sometimes you have is especially the marketing. You can go through several different people and still not get the desired results and you still thinking what's what's happening? What have I done wrong? What? Why have invested this much money?
Speaker 1:And, obviously, business as well, like you sell, it is the learning process we have to keep failing, to keep having to go through the the. You know, if the first thing you touch turning to gold and there be nothing, you know I mean the whole point is to keep, keep, keep learning. So I think it's a really, really valuable lesson, you know, for the viewers as well, that you know get it, getting someone who's an expert within that field early on, getting people that you can trust. I'm thinking, you know I've invested all this money and getting my surgery looking really pretty, looking really nice and how I want it to be, but if you've not got the outside team getting you, the patients, through the door, there's no point in the business that's exactly right.
Speaker 2:So so that's really what don't coach us is about. We literally have over 20 coaches that we have that we work with and will pull from where their expertise is to actually build the team around the doctor. So the other thing I wanted to bring up that and I I have to say this delicately, but the one thing I noticed about dentists in general is that they love to be able to, they love to go out and ask their colleagues and friends that are that are dentists. You know their thoughts and what do they think, and all of that. And the bad thing about that is if they, if those friends or colleagues, have not done it or have been successful in doing that, then they shouldn't be talking to them about that.
Speaker 2:Just because you know how. How can you learn from somebody that's never been there done that right? So so it's basically like and I hate to say it like in your professors in school, right, it's kind of those who teach will teach, and those who you know, those who will be successful, are the ones that are outside doing it right. So, and that's not it. I'm not trying to down on professors, but they'll also try to share their opinion of what they, what they think, that I would say go to the expert.
Speaker 1:Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely, but I think that the issue you have is probably the same. There is. It is a bit of a minefield because you really don't know who you can trust.
Speaker 1:You really don't know who can get you the results you want and it's you know. It may be that they come up top on the Google search in the ICO and maybe that they've got good campaigns, but can they really deliver the results? And those are tricky decisions to make, even even myself as a business owner. How do you decide who to go for? How do you build that trust? And sometimes you know somebody might say, yeah, it's so and so is really really good and it really worked for me, but it might not work for you and it is difficult. But are there any pointers that you can give to be able to get the right people and and and decide who to choose to help you, perhaps with the marketing, or perhaps to help you, you know, develop that the right, the right culture within your practice and the right philosophy?
Speaker 2:So that's a super good question, and exactly why and I'm not trying to push down coach USA, but that's actually why don't coach USA was created Is because I saw this in the industry in regards to, you know, the doctors going out there and getting advice from so many different people, and the problem is, everybody has their own specific opinion, but what nobody really is looking at is what.
Speaker 2:What's really truly that doctor about and what is the goal of that doctor, where does that doctor see him, see themselves within 1020 years from now, and what is the true mission and vision and everything else. That's really where it all begins, and and so how we actually create what you're talking about is we literally will take a client to a step by step process of Basically working with all these different individual advisors, but every single advisor that we work with, we always get on with them to discuss their vision, their mission and their goals, and we want to make sure that everybody is moving in the same direction together. So, because we want a successful outcome of that, does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Absolutely so get expertise and get people in the right sector on the right areas of the business. And interesting because you know, when you say like 20 different types of people and you're thinking, well, what are the 20 different types of areas that you know that you can help him and then if you think about you could probably you know, when you actually think about it and really think about your business, you think, yeah, I need somebody who's going to help me recruit, for example, and get the right stuff in. Yeah, I need somebody who's going to do the marketing. Yeah, I need somebody who knows about it and knows how to Deal with with, with the IT side of things. Yeah, I need I need the people who can do the sales and be able to treatment, coordinate and and do that.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I need the right people being in surgery as well. And, yeah, I need to get people through the door. So there's so many different aspects to a dental practice which you don't really think about. And, right, you said not one person fits all for all those areas, because the specialized areas and in big businesses you've got big HR teams, you've got marketing teams, you've got lots of big, big people. It's not just one person dealing with it, and when you, when you're a doctor or a dentist Trying to do all those things, it never works.
Speaker 2:No, I, we basically let the doctor know that we're going to take them through these steps. But I think that the one important thing you know to know is you know because of the fact that you know I've been in this industry for over 33 years. I've been in it for a long, long time and I love every minute of it. I love, I'm very passionate about this industry, but I'm very dangerous, and basically being able to know a lot of things right, but at the same time, I know I don't specialize in everything. So but I'm good at is being able to pinpoint exactly the need. But I then grab the specialist that actually is, you know, can actually help the doctor with that specific thing. So that's so. That's how we create our team of people around the doctor.
Speaker 1:And that's exactly what a coach is, isn't it? A coach doesn't necessarily specialize in that particular field Perhaps a mentor does but a coach is somebody who can give you that vision, clarity and understanding of the problem and then direct you or allow yourself to be directed to the appropriate people. But until you've understood what the issues are, what the problems are and the goals and your own aspirations, you're not going to be able to, because it's all a bit fuzzy, isn't it? You know, when you start out, you think, yeah, we'll try this, we'll try. That is, there's no clear vision, there's no clear mission, there's no clear leadership, and these things then play out in in failed Fail practices. Really, a thousand percent.
Speaker 2:Because the reason why we do that is because when they actually walk into their practice, we want them to walk in with their vision, their mission and their goals, because that's actually what a doctor is stand, really stands for and that's what they're going to leave their team with. That's why we do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's really, really powerful that I think dentists and principals and people who are all in the team and principals and people who own practices need to become better leaders and better people who can lead the whole organization or the whole team and be able to To empower everyone in the practice and create that coaching culture where everyone's wanting each other to do better and there's A desire and a culture of increasing the productivity, increasing the revenue, increasing the morale and pushing everyone in the direction that the leader wants to go in. And you can only start that when you start yourself drawing that in and doing that. And I spent some of my coaching sessions of my coach being able to do this and being able to Visualize. And I think you that there is. It is so, so powerful. When you can visualize something, you can see it and you can understand it and then you kind of Almost like make it happen because you've got such a clear picture of what you want and how you want it to be.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent, and that's really why I started out with my story about me becoming a US national champion, because I visualize that for meant for a number of years and it came to pass. You know that because I started with the end in mind and I visualize exactly what was going to take place.
Speaker 1:And obviously you help not just newly graduated dentists, you help obviously people who are looking to exit and sell their practices, and people are in in somewhere in the middle. So you know, how do you? How do you help it? Because actually a few podcasts ago we actually had somebody who was ready to sell his practice and he got a coach into trying get the numbers up and get that, get it to a sellable kind of state, and then in the end decided, actually I'd rather stay on because I've managed to get to that place where I wanted to go to sell it anymore, and he ended up, you know, and he still got that practice. But you know, tells how a coach can come in and help dentists in that regard as well. Again, you know we do sit down with them.
Speaker 2:we want to understand the goals, but we also have to help them with their timeline of those goals, and so we we set specific dates of when things are going to happen with them. But because exactly what you're talking about, that absolutely does happen when, because you know, doctors in general will get to the point in their career where they get a burnout on the business side of the practice. So I most likely what happened to that person is that they were probably just totally burned out and couldn't figure out how to actually make it different for themselves. So they probably thought I'm just going to sell my practice. So we know we definitely really go in and look at the bottom line of this practice and how the systems and things are working within this practice and what the goal is.
Speaker 2:And what we're looking at is we want to see how can we create more profitability in this practice, because the way that a dental practice is sold is based on what the cash flow is and the goodwill of that practice. So, basically, if we can look at number one start-up, even with their tax returns, looking and seeing exactly what their bottom line net income is, and then from there go into their systems and say, okay, how can we drive up more profit? Then they can actually sell their practices for more. So I'd like to catch doctors two to three years out, before they're actually ready to sell, because a lot of them get to the point of retirement and then all of a sudden find out that they can't sell their practice or they're not going to sell their practice for what they think that they would like to get. So I would always say at least two to three years out is the best time to start the excellent important lesson as well.
Speaker 1:Like when you buy a business or start out a business, make sure you think of the end as well, because there is a point where you're going to have to exit or you want to exit the business as well.
Speaker 1:So I always think that you should create a model where it doesn't fully rely on you as being the sole driver of revenue or profit, and I think that's the important thing. You've got to have the ending mind as well. So, whether it's a five year, 10 year, 20 year plan or whatever, but always have that in the back of your mind that if I wasn't here tomorrow or something happened to my health or I wasn't able to practice anymore, my business would survive without me. And if you have that in mind, then I think you'll go a long way as a practice, because it means that other people will want to buy your business too.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent and everything you said is correct. So you know, basically, when it comes to that, you know that's really important for me and what we're really trying to get to with our clients is really focusing on you know what their retirement. When would they like to retire, at what age? Right, and so I like. For example, I'm working with a coach. Or we have a coach that literally owned five dental practices and his goal was to retire at the age of 49. And so basically he absolutely was able to retire at the age of 49 and literally retired extremely wealthy. But here's the other side of it.
Speaker 2:I worked with another doctor. His goal was to actually retire at the age of 60. But that was his goal. He knew he needs to have all of his retirement everything in place by the age of 60. But the goal was just to either work because he wanted to and not because he had to. That was the whole goal. And so he actually continued on after that just enjoying being a dentist after that, because he no longer had the worry of his retirement.
Speaker 1:So yeah, like you said, it's got to be tailor packaged because it depends on your situation, depends on what you, what you want to do and how you want to go about achieving it. But everything is possible. It's just about creating that plan or creating that vision and creating that way of doing it. So what I wanted to really talk to you about on this podcast was, obviously, coaching has been around for a long time.
Speaker 1:In America it's very widely used, especially in the dental sector, as well as generally in the UK it's I'd say it's relatively newer, but it's also quite treated with suspicion, shall we say. It's treated as though can you really, can it really help us? What benefits will I get from coaching? Because obviously there's sometimes that there's there's no real way of proving until a process, until the end really. So if I went into a practice that I can, I can 10 X your profits, etc. I can't prove that until the end.
Speaker 1:But there's lots of factors that can you know and I think you have to be. What one of the other thing I think is is you have to be honest and realistic with people and manage their expectations, but as long as you you know that you can make, leave it in a much better place than where it started, and I think people can't expect overnight, instant results. So how do you think for the UK market and perhaps trying to copy some of the things that that you do in the US how do you think the UK could embrace a coaching culture, especially within the dental sector?
Speaker 2:So OK, so the one thing that I've noticed throughout the years with all the all these dentists is that in the very kind of in the beginning of my career, dentists in general really looked at coaching as voodoo in a way. As I you know, it's only because dentists here can actually just put up a shingle outside their door and then they can still be successful, right, but, but yet they don't really have the proper systems and things in place to really really make them successful. So, but I think what started happening more and more is that more of these, basically what's happening right now in the in the US is that we have a lot of what we call DSOs coming into the market and these DSOs are buying up all these dental practices, but they're also watering down the watering down the whole practice, right, not making it as valuable, but yet they're buying up all these practices. And I think dentists in general here in the United States really value private practice. They value that a thousand percent.
Speaker 2:I work with a lot of the dental schools here in the United States and all the dental students that I work with have a vision of having their own practice. So it's not that you know. So it's all about them being able to live a balanced life right, and that's really what private practice is about living your own balanced life. But getting back to coaching, I think the one major thing is is that the coaching has come very, become very popular because now dentists are seeing the importance of understanding the business side of the practice and understanding what they can do to actually grow their practices to compete against DSO. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:I just want to just just explain a little bit. What are DSOs? Are they corporate kind of it's called?
Speaker 2:corporate dentistry. Yeah, it's a large, big, huge conglomerate companies that come in and want to buy up all these dental practices. But I personally, in my mind I kind of see that you know, there's also a lot of these, what we call the DSOs, that are what I would say imploding from the inside out because they're just not managed properly and doing well that way, but yet they are causing a little rift in the market.
Speaker 1:I think it's interesting because UK has actually something very, very similar happening quite recently. One of the big corporates actually folded, had to sell lots of their practices and a lot of the larger corporates are really, really struggling. And the reason why I think they're struggling is because I think they've they've not understood the dental sector and not understood the intricate nature of dentistry and that personable relationship between the dentist and the patient, which is very unique, because patients generally buy from and trust the people they know, and that's usually the dentist. And the corporates, in my opinion, have focused on the business and focused on on trying to get perhaps cheap labor as well sometimes and trying to get people who can work for less and trying to just make it profitable in a normal business sense.
Speaker 1:But it doesn't quite play out in the dental sector, because the dental sector is very is about being personable and it's a very trusting kind of relationship. So it's not like, for example, you know there's lots of corporate pharmacists, for example. You know, in that situation, yeah, you're just delivering medicine and perhaps the, the, the importance of the pharmacy isn't as important compared to that personable relationship that you're going to get as a dentist. So, even though the sectors might look very similar and operate in similar environments, the actual delivery of service is very different, because the experience of the dental experience is by the dentist. In the end, it's not a product that's that that they receive. It's it's a personal product that's delivered by the dentist.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent and you know I definitely agree on that and I'm glad you see it that way. You know, the one thing that DSOs are focused on is bottom line profit and they're not focused on the patient and that, I think, is where everybody goes wrong. But once, I think, a patient has experienced private practice and that that level of care that a private practice provides them, they're not going to want to go back to you know a DSO or clinic because they're experienced. They've already experienced somebody taking great care of them, right. So that's that's where they, you know, I think that that's where they fall short for sure.
Speaker 1:And I think that that care and that concern that you have as an individual dentist leading a team is something that's very much diluted in a corporate environment because there's no real leader in that organization, there's no real care as much as well on the on the ground and I think patients pick up on that staff, feel completely disengaged from the people at the top and it's just a perfect breeding ground for for like a toxic workplace sometimes and and a really probably unhappy staff and unhappy, you know, low productivity and and eventually you know it'll impact, you know the the profitability of those practices.
Speaker 1:And I think I'm hoping at some point the corporates realize this and think this isn't like a normal business and we need to stop treating it like a normal business because it's not just about more marketing or more advertising and getting more patients through the door, because sometimes that can be counterintuitive, because you know you might not be able to deliver what you're trying to do and be you're not understanding what the problem is and that problem might be localized to that particular practice or that particular dentist or group of dentists and until you deal with that problem locally, it's always going to be a problem.
Speaker 2:Yep, I totally agree and I think the one popular thing that's really taken off here in the United States is that they're really educating dentists and they're educating the team on how to deliver overall health for that patient. Right, because everything that goes into the mouth, it can really be systemic and cause other issues within the body, right. So, based on that, it starts out with the hygiene department. I'm not positive that you guys have hygiene departments, I apologize, but it starts out there to educate the patients and I think once patients know you care they're, they're going to really they're going to start telling their friends about you as well.
Speaker 1:Right. I think. I think that works really really well and I have seen it in some of the clients that I work with, where the owners actually really feel passionate about the dental care that's provided. And you know, you can tell, because when you walk into the practice, you meet the staff, you meet the people, you see the way they treat the patients, you see the patient journey and you actually see it and you think, wow, this is how you know we should treat every patient, this is how we should make them feel special. It should be an experience that they really, really enjoy, and I think I want to.
Speaker 1:I want to come back here, I want to tell my friends about it, I want to tell other people I had such an amazing time and and it starts by, I believe, empowering each and every person who's on that journey, whether that's the first phone call to that practice, whether that's the reception, whether that's the treatment coordinator, whether that's the website, whether that's the. However, however, whatever things where the patient engages with the, with the practice, has to be a positive experience. It has to be that and everyone's on the same page about Trying to build the reputation of the practice and build the growth and help it grow. And I think you know this. There's a lot to that, you know, and there's a lot that there's a big process involved in, like you said, recruiting the right people on reception, recruiting the right staff. I mean, I actually had a may know Bob pick Last on the last series and he talks about, obviously, hoodles in the morning and some of the things that he does to get people motivated every day and get people feeling important. I think you can create that kind of culture.
Speaker 1:You know you're onto a winner, but people focus on the bottom line, but what they don't realize is that bottom line will automatically change if you change all these other things. But it's not about the bottom line, because the bottom line is is is going to change if you put all your efforts in trying to deliver A service or product that's world class, that patients love and and if you can do that, I mean even little things like he talks about on one of the podcast where he said afterwards he does a phone call or a video call to the patients. So it's so, so powerful. It's just five minutes of your time, but how many people are they going to tell?
Speaker 1:My dentist rang me to check if I'm okay and check. You know how my experience was and I did that as a video call. The personally did that. I mean, if you think about the power of doing something like that for all your patients, you know you're going to get rewarded in multiple, multiple times, but it's just something that you're not going to. You don't need to put the money into the marketing. That's what you really need to focus on that patient experience, because once you build that reputation, build that practice, you're just going to have people queuing outside the door to come and your practice.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent. And you know, the one thing that I think kind of sums all of that up is the more you give to others, the more you're going to get right, right. So it's really giving them. You know what it is that the patient truly desires, and I think the one thing just like your overall health, you want to have good health right. But I think mentally they want a good, a beautiful smile as well. That's going to help them to create the confidence within themselves and that's that, I think, is the most important thing to give somebody is a beautiful smile. So I you know, I would think that that would be important to a lot of people, absolutely absolutely.
Speaker 1:They've got to be happy with the end product and you've got to be able to deliver a, a smile for them, that's. That's they'll remember forever, for life, because that's what they have to wear.
Speaker 1:How to use that to smile and impress people and all those kind of things that you know, and we do judge people based on their smile A lot of the time. You know it's something, it's the first thing you know, especially dentists. First thing we notice in people we're looking at their teeth and and I think it's really, really important that people feel like they don't need to. As long as they look after their teeth and oral health and I've got the tools and resources to do that you can provide them with the smile that they want. And then it's just about maintain maintenance and being able to deliver high quality dental care and and getting them to understand and take ownership and responsibility of the treatment and be able to look after them. And I think if, if we could empower patients as well on that journey of Taking ownership of their own mouth and looking after them, then you've kind of fulfilled that, that purpose of you know, being a dentist as well, being able to, you know, help them with their oral health as well. Absolutely, yep.
Speaker 2:No, that, yeah, this is. I have to tell you. I really appreciate this conversation. I you know it's exciting to me to hear even where you're coming from as well, and I can tell you a thousand percent right on target on all of it, so it's nice to hear that.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you, and I, like I said, I feel passionate more about, because I think that the UK sector, uk market, is still, like I said, it's on the cusp of becoming privatized, I would say, and there's been a significant boom over the last five years and I think People are now Willing to pay for cosmetic work or willing to pay significant sums of money.
Speaker 1:I think the dentist need to respond to that by upskilling and being able to deliver that treatment.
Speaker 1:But also, I think that people will start to value their oral health and their dental health If you sell it in that way as well, that you actually care about them as a person and you care about their oral health and you care about them.
Speaker 1:And it's the same and I think it just has a knock on effect for everyone involved, like if you've got staff that feel like you care about them and you care about their well being and you you support them in advancing their careers, you pay them well, treat them nicely. You know that that is a win for everyone and you will win in the end because you'll read the rewards as a practice owner, because you'll, you know you've, you've created a legacy there and an environment that just thrived, and then you can just replicate that in multiple locations if you wanted and use it as a model, and that's basically what I wanted to do today was to get people to understand that coaching can really, really change, is a game changer for people, but it's if they understand it and apply it and use it for everything really.
Speaker 2:Well, I think our motto is do it right the first time, because if you don't, you're just going to be guessing your way through it and cut it. It would be costly mistakes all the way through. So that's why I say get a coach up front, just like yourself and somebody that can go in get them set up properly and get them started up on the right foot in their practice.
Speaker 1:So I think one of the things that I sometimes through on perhaps you could give me some tips is a lot of practice owners that want instant results is like what am I going to get my money back? When am I going to get my money back? If I pay you this much, how am I going to get my money back? And it's very difficult question to answer because you're almost like thinking well, it's not as though I can make you a millionaire overnight or I can 10x your revenue overnight. This requires you to put in the effort and be able to systematically deal with all the things that we've talked about and put a plan in place for you to be able to deliver it.
Speaker 1:It's not about you know, it's not about. It's like you know, when you go to a personal trainer and you think I want to lose 20 pounds or something and that's not going to happen tomorrow, how good a trainer you are. It's not going to happen tomorrow, and that's why I try to make the point. But how would you answer that? You know when people say well, how am I going to get a return on my investment? You know if I invest in you as a coach.
Speaker 2:So I will have to tell you that I have a thousand percent am on board with return on investment. I think that in order to show your value as a coach, you have to show them that return on investment and pay for yourself, right. And so whatever you're doing to coach that client, you've got to make it so that in a couple of months two, three, maybe six months, probably six months or more that they're really going to see that return on investment. But you're also correct in saying some dentists will go into it by expecting the coach to do everything for them, and so the doctor and the team need to be accountable for everything that is being taught by that coach. And if the doctor can honestly say that both of them are working to be accountable for what it is and they're doing everything possible, then most likely that's going to work for them. But and I'm going to use another example for you that I think will resonate even more for you it's in marketing.
Speaker 2:So a lot of dentists will get into marketing, spend thousands and thousands of dollars in marketing but honestly, they're not seeing, like, maybe, a return on their investment or they're not seeing new patients coming through the door, right. So the one thing that we can also prove now is we know that the marketing is working because we can look at analytics of who's actually calling the office, who's actually you know what's going on in that situation, how many people are actually, you know, looking at the website and everything else. So the bottom line to that story is the marketing is probably working, but who's not working is the person answering the phone. So that's where it's a good time to coach that person to say, hey, you know, let's kind of look at how we're answering that phone to get those new patients through the door. And then it even can back up even more where the practice can be a revolving door.
Speaker 2:And what I mean by that is that even though they're pulling in maybe a lot of new patients, they're still not seeing their practice grow. It could be because they're not showing the value in their practice to the patient, which just because they're bringing new patients in, doesn't mean that those patients are setting up a recap, you know, for their hygiene visits and so on and so forth, or going ahead and scheduling for that procedure that was diagnosed. So you know they've got to really look at where the real problem is and who the problem is because I in fact, I literally you're going to love this one but I literally had a meeting, like I do a lot of seminars for groups, and I put a mirror on each other, everybody's chair because I really wanted them to see who the real problem was. How do you like that one when they got it.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really, really, and it's something that I've become more and more aware of. You know, philosophically, as well as coaching, that a lot of the time we like to blame others for a problem, but the problem's staring right back at you.
Speaker 1:That's exactly right, and a lot of the time, the problem is you and even though we don't like to accept it or admit it, you know, at the end of the day you can't control how somebody you know how somebody feels about you, but what you can do is choose how to react to the situation and you're in control of yourself. And I think that's where I think it's really important to develop a strong growth mindset, as well as having that resilience to be able to deal with problems and not think, you know, it's the end of the world because a compressor, for example, is not working or the practice can't function or the computers are down or systems down, because it should be like that's life and nothing ever goes to plan. And even as a business and even as a practice owner or as a business owner, there will always be problems. If there weren't problems then you'd never. But every time you deal with that problem you get better at dealing with that problem. So the next time it happened, it's dealt with more efficiently, it's dealt with more quickly. I know how to deal with that because I've dealt with it before and you've got that experience and as the years go better, the problems that you thought were really, really big become miniscule and I think that's when you can really start to, I suppose, enjoy your life. But the first five years perhaps of your business is the most stressful out of all of them, because that's when you're struggling on every level.
Speaker 1:You don't know what works in the marketing. You don't know what works in the delivery of service. You don't know what works in terms of the patient experience. You don't know anything and you start from that place that I don't know anything. But I've got that attitude that I want to keep learning. And even if problems happen, even if things don't go to plan, I know that that's because I needed to learn more. And you learn the most from the failures and from the things that don't work, because if they didn't work all the time, then you'd never learn and you'd just assume that it works.
Speaker 1:Some people can be a bit like a fluke. You can wing it, but most of the time you'll get found out if you wing it too much, and I think that's what happens with most dentists, because they try and wing it and they think, no, I'm stronger than that. I can do the business aspect and I can work and I can deal with this, and I can deal with this rep and I can do the ordering and I can do all this, and you think, no, you can't, you absolutely cannot. And if you do do that, you'll just end up with burnout and not be able to survive. So, as we come to the end of this podcast, can you give us some lasting thoughts that you want to give our viewers?
Speaker 2:You know what I think my lasting thought would be something I actually did learn from Tony Robbins is live by what we call Kani constant and never ending improvement. So live by C-A-N-I constant and never ending improvement. But that's constant and never an improvement, both in your clinical skill and also in your business. So always strive for that, because that's what's going to help you to become better and better and better every day.
Speaker 1:Perfect. That's a really brilliant thing for everyone to learn from, and coaching is about improving and getting you further, because it's something that you can't do yourself. It's like a personal training. We know that it works and we know, even in sports and the best sports employ the best. You know, you call it soccer, but it's a big, big thing, and the best coaches have paid us a lot of money to get the best out of the potential, out of the talent that they have, and I think that you know, if the top sportsmen use top coaches, then why shouldn't we all have coaching as part of our lifestyle, as part of our business, as part of our way of life?
Speaker 1:Because I think I fell in love with the idea, the concept, the philosophy, and when I look at it and I look at successful businesses, I look at success in every aspect. There's always coaching involved and there's always coaches involved, and even the most successful sportsmen will look back and say you know what? It was actually that coach that unlocked me and it was that coach when I spent time. You know, and even, for example, cristiano Ronaldo is a big, big soccer player and I'm sure if you asked him, you know and one of my all-time favourite managers.
Speaker 1:Our coach is Sir Alex Ferguson and I'm sure if you asked him and the people that he managed to make from being very average kind of players to being top level players, it's his coaching abilities and skills that unlock that potential and they probably wouldn't have got to the heights that they did without the coach. And I think that's really what I wanted to articulate to the viewers today as well that you know, with coaching and embedding a coaching culture within dentistry, we can really really change the landscape and really really maximise the growth and create a coaching culture where everyone's thriving and everyone's successful. It doesn't need to be as competitive or as top-dead as it is. It's about collaboration and there's enough money in the world for everyone to do well and we should have that kind of mentality of just trying to help as many people as we can.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and I can tell you that our favourite football coach, or soccer coach, whatever you want to call them I know in UK it's called football, right? So our favourite coach here in the United States is Ted Lasso. Have you heard of him?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I just like him, though I think everybody needs to watch Ted Lasso.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely definitely do need to watch him. Thanks, bob for coming. Really really enjoyed it. I had actually some great fun today as well. I hope the viewers enjoyed it. Thanks for watching guys and stay updated for the next one. Enjoy the rest of the week. Thanks, guys, take care, thanks, bye.
Speaker 2:Thank you.