Have you ever reflected on how your upbringing, especially the influence from your parents, has shaped you into the adult you are today? Our special guest, Dr. Steve Poulter, a former policeman turned clinical psychologist, joins us for an enlightening journey through this labyrinth of self-exploration. Dr. Poulter shares his personal narrative of navigating a bi-cultural childhood under an Australian father, his transformational professional shift, and the inspiration behind his insightful books on the mother, father and shame factor.
As we dive deeper into the conversation, we uncover the significant role of emotional availability among men in the evolving landscape of the modern-day workplace and home. We dissect the potential dangers of emotional blockage, the physical toll it may bring, and the sheer courage it demands for men to openly discuss their emotions and embrace vulnerability. The conversation further unravels the intricate ties between our fathers and mothers, sibling rivalry and parental favoritism, and their crucial roles in shaping our personalities.
Lastly, we navigate the complex world of today's teenagers, the pressure they feel to conform, and how it can lead to disconnect from their emotional lives. The advancements in technology and social media, while being a double-edged sword, have left an indelible impact on their personal development. We cap it off with tangible guidance to help young people steer through these challenges and cultivate healthy relationships. Dr. Poulter's upcoming book, 'A New Masculinity,' is also up for discussion, casting light on his vision for men's mental health. This conversation invites you to better understand yourself and others through the lens of childhood and parental influences. Tune in for this thought-provoking exchange.
Have you ever reflected on how your upbringing, especially the influence from your parents, has shaped you into the adult you are today? Our special guest, Dr. Steve Poulter, a former policeman turned clinical psychologist, joins us for an enlightening journey through this labyrinth of self-exploration. Dr. Poulter shares his personal narrative of navigating a bi-cultural childhood under an Australian father, his transformational professional shift, and the inspiration behind his insightful books on the mother, father and shame factor.
As we dive deeper into the conversation, we uncover the significant role of emotional availability among men in the evolving landscape of the modern-day workplace and home. We dissect the potential dangers of emotional blockage, the physical toll it may bring, and the sheer courage it demands for men to openly discuss their emotions and embrace vulnerability. The conversation further unravels the intricate ties between our fathers and mothers, sibling rivalry and parental favoritism, and their crucial roles in shaping our personalities.
Lastly, we navigate the complex world of today's teenagers, the pressure they feel to conform, and how it can lead to disconnect from their emotional lives. The advancements in technology and social media, while being a double-edged sword, have left an indelible impact on their personal development. We cap it off with tangible guidance to help young people steer through these challenges and cultivate healthy relationships. Dr. Poulter's upcoming book, 'A New Masculinity,' is also up for discussion, casting light on his vision for men's mental health. This conversation invites you to better understand yourself and others through the lens of childhood and parental influences. Tune in for this thought-provoking exchange.
Hi everyone. Welcome to episode 9 of the Diary of a Dental Coach. We have had some amazing, amazing guests. Just a couple of days ago we had Dr Raid Ali. He's a top top guy, came from Iraq, made a big success story of himself, owner of three different practices, and he's loving life and there's so much we can learn from him. So I wanted to vary things up for the series. So, without further ado, we're in esteem company. We've got Dr Steve, or Dr Stephen Poulter, all the way from Los Angeles. Welcome, dr Steve, to the show.
Speaker 2:Dr, it's a pleasure to be here. You can call me Steve or Stefan, but it's a pleasure to be here with you.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean, I'm really, really fascinated by your books and the topics that you write about, especially currently, we're in the midst of a crisis for men in particular, and it being the. In fact, just a couple of shows ago, we had a professor, john Gibson, whose son actually passed away due to suicide, and we've got a big crisis on our hands in terms of men's mental health, and I think it's something that you feel quite passionate about as well, so we definitely can't wait to get this started. So tell us about yourself, your childhood. How did you become a clinical psychologist?
Speaker 2:Okay, so we only have seven days to talk about this, right? It's good to know. I had to say my dad was Australian, born and raised in Australia. My grandparents migrated from London in the 1920s early 1920s, so I feel like I'm primarily English and living in America because I was raised with the King and Queen. The reason I bring that up was my dad being Australian in the United States. It was different growing up in the 60s, 70s and 80s because my dad came at life from a different perspective where football, baseball was not priority. Education, good work, ethic nothing is important here in America, but that was part of the way I was raised. And also the old team was having to step up or lift, not show much emotion, which I always thought was how do you do that when you feel all this stuff on the inside? That's kind of how it started because they told me I felt too much. I said we're designed to feel stuff. That's kind of how it started.
Speaker 2:Going through my early years and into college, where I was a business major. I always wanted to work with people. I always felt myself interested in people, wanting to work with people, and that's kind of how I migrated toward psychology. I was a policeman for eight years, from age 23 to 31. That was one of my better educational periods in life because I learned a lot about people and taking away the crisis 90% of the time people are in despair and how to deal with people and despair. So it was very good training for being a psychologist.
Speaker 2:And suicides, a lot of that, a lot of murders it all prepared me for dealing with people and helping them get out of a crisis. Whenever I hear about suicide, there's a saying every 15 minutes there's a suicide and every 16 minutes the family's left for a lifetime to figure out why. Every 15 minutes there's a suicide. And that family every 16 minutes the family's left figuring out what did we see? How did we miss this? How did this happen? So it's serious and I really deal with a lot of young men, probably ages 10 to 88, but a lot of teens, young men in college, 18 to 30 and that's a prime age for a lot of boys to get sideways and confused and can lose their direction. Maybe overdose on drugs or fentanyl is a big deal in this country right now. Is that a big deal in England, in Europe?
Speaker 1:right now. Yeah, I would say it's a drug abuse, substance abuse. It's definitely a big problem.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had in my practice. I had friends with one of their buddies of ODed on that and this year 2023, several times. So it's a very big deal. But long story short, I always wanted to work with people and the police department was a great training. But I went to seminary to work you know kind of a spiritual path and then evolved into getting my PhD in psychology and working with people. So that desire to work with men kind of understand the father factor, how our dads impact our lives and how to be a good father you know kind of a foundation for where I am today.
Speaker 1:So tell us a little bit more about this. This is obviously something I'm very intrigued about myself as well, because there's a series of books that you've written, one about the mother factor, one about the father factor, one about the shame factor and how do we I mean, obviously, before we went live on air, we were talking about how people misunderstood understand that the whole process of this is not to blame anyone or not to blame parenting for how we are, but also to use it as a way of better understanding who we are, and we're a product of our childhood. So tell us about how our childhood, and especially our parents, mother, father, etc. Impact us into adulthood.
Speaker 2:Yeah, childhood. You know the father of psychotherapy or psychology, sigmund Freud, talked about how, in development of psych they talked about how our first love relationship, the first one we ever loved, was our mother and the first man we ever loved was our father. And that does set. That's a template for by age five we boys either feel inferior or you feel competent. It's that spectrum. We need more tort feeling inferior, more tort feeling competent. And then as we go into school years we kind of develop the ability to read, write, arithmetic, reason, social issues, not to deal with people socially. And our family is our foundation.
Speaker 2:Many families may be chaotic or unstable, but that doesn't predispose them into a traumatic adulthood. I say that a lot people come from horrendous settings, make sense of it and build their own foundation and move forward. There's other people that come from a very stable home and don't make much of their life. So you know, I tell you you're not predisposed, because of the power of choice and what you want your life to look like and lastly, with men, the ability to sit with uncomfortableness. That's one of the best kept secrets. Doctor, people ask me all the time if I really want to be a successful man, what do I need to learn I question maybe once a day, if not three times a week, I go when you learn how to sit with feeling uncomfortable? You can do anything. You don't medicate, you don't run from, you're able to sit with it literally and figuratively, understand it, figure out where it's coming from and that can show that emotional straight jacket. You know like men are, either you can be angry or you can be quiet and nothing else in between. That that's a straight jacket emotionally and that's let me to really try to figure out. You can't stuff energy it'll. You can suppress it, but it's going to show up elsewhere. For a lot of men it shows up in their bodies heart attacks, poor health, dental care. It shows up everywhere and the mind body connection is part of it. As a psychologist, help guys understand that a lot of times your body is like the dashboard is telling you something. You know in the United States there's 1000 heart attacks a day. 900 of those men die. Of that 900, 90% had no preexisting health problems. What does that tell us? It's a broken heart, there's an emotional issue that's killing you and men, I think, are starting to see that now and that's what's driven me to write like the father factor, mother factor, the X factor, shame fact, a lot of factors here.
Speaker 2:And right now the new book coming out, a new mask, a new masculinity, you know, compassionate guidebook for men's mental health. Mental health is physical health. Women get that. Women have always. You know you have the mommy and me. You know the book clubs. Women get together. Women understand the sisterhood as guys were kind of like. You know, if you're so, if you're a solo guy, that's great, but it's really not. Many front men need men. We had a lot but need men because it bounces us out. It's kind of stuff. I work with guys developing relationships with men because that makes your marriage better or your partnership better. And that's a long answer, doctor. I want to give you some content.
Speaker 1:So tell us about this obviously new book. And in this day and age, you know, masculinity is something that's talked about quite a lot and, to be honest with you, I feel a bit like it's. It's become a bit of a subject because we've got people like Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson talking about it. To be honest, a lot of things that they talk around actually really resonate with me as a man as well. Yes, but obviously it's not that widely acknowledged or accepted.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, I really really appreciate Jordan Peterson is Jordan's a clinical psychologist and he talks about men being responsible, a mature man and not blaming others, kind of real fundamentals. But how that plays out in your life is dramatic. You know and see people ask what's the definition of masculinity. So I, in the book I talk, there's four pieces to it Compassion, empathy, the ability to have a plan for your life and, lastly, to believe in something, believe in yourself and something bigger than you.
Speaker 2:Compassion is that you, you can't care for others. If you don't like yourself, you can't go along with yourself. You can't go along with anybody, and that for a lot of men. I don't want to talk about my chug Right. You were abused or your dad was an alcoholic, unfortunately left you and your mom and you guys had to raise yourselves. I mean, it's embarrassing, it's a million, but learning to work through that, you don't get stuck there, it's a lot of guys. You don't get stuck at age 15 or it don't spend your life hating your dad, because all you're doing is bringing your life up. You have to come back and redo it, you just bring it up.
Speaker 2:Compassion is the ability to like yourself. You always say what I want self acceptance. No, no, learn to like yourself. Very powerful, very, very power. Empathy is my ability to connect with you, doctor, that I'm able to emotionally understand myself so I can understand you and connect with you.
Speaker 2:That's the second piece of it. Empathy is a result of me liking myself, that I have a relationship with myself. You know I like, understand, like I have some insight. You know I don't have to sit in the corner and dwell but I even in you know if I'm anxious on what's going on, you know I'm not feeling good about this, I think something's off. You know you have an inner dialogue. Empathy allows me to understand you, doctor, and that is what feeds men. Men need guys to bounce off, set limits, get energized with. Not having a partner is so important. This has nothing sexual orientation, whether you're whatever, men need a buddy. You know, a close friend, confident, who they can talk to and not feel judge, share stuff. You know stupid thoughts, good thoughts, just, you know they know each other.
Speaker 2:That leads to the third piece a life plan. Not so a lot of people. So I don't have a, I don't have a passion for life. I well, it wouldn't have an idea where they want to go in life, and embracing that breeds confidence and competency. Doctor, you're a dentist, so there were. You had a plan to get through dental school and that plan allows you Dev life you have and to continue. Not that you're, it's taped on the bathroom mirror every day, but you have a plan internally with your family, your children, your wife, but men with a plan, as Warren Buffett said, I'm out. The plan will always be the genius seven times out of ten, the other three times the guy gives up. You know and I appreciate his humor and a plan. It could be about work, your family, you're across the board and a plan. It's important because that you have a direction yeah, like I'm heading north, okay, okay, or you know which way you're going metaphorically. And Lastly, is believing yourself and also something bigger than you. You know we're part of the bigger picture, but also believing yourself. They have courage to step out and With that you.
Speaker 2:Another con term, doctor, is toxic masculinity, toxic, the way I define the term. It's abuse. It starts with the person abusing themselves and that goes out to other people Because if you like yourself, you're connected. Yourself you're not. It's incompatible To exploit someone else or another woman or sexually exploit others. It's incompatible oil and water. Don't mix those. Don't mix. You have compassion, empathy. You're not exploiting others because that you have an internal guide Within units developed. So that's masculinity, doctor, the four pieces. And so I talk about how to develop that.
Speaker 2:And it manifests in the five apps I called them family, finances, future plans, friends and the ability to forgive. And the most important person you have to forgive is yourself. If you can forgive yourself, you can understand others. But people, how do I know? I'm functioning as a man. You know the way I want to be. Look at those five areas. Does your family like you do, like your family? Finances are? Being responsible has nothing to do with wealth, has to do with responsibility. And Jordan Peterson, that's probably one of his. I love that about him. He talked about responsibility, one in doubt. What's your responsibility in this issue? And you're probably ten times out of ten not gonna miss much. You know not gonna miss much and I can't argue with him. And having a, you know, having friends, I can't say that enough, doctor, a lot of men kind of you know, pull out everything women do. I sisterhood gets it. They understand it and believe it in yourself and something bigger than you, doctor, it gets us out. It's myopic view. You know like I'm speaking to you in England.
Speaker 1:How do you deal with? Because obviously, yeah, the expectation, the roles of men have changed in the modern era. You know, perhaps in the past it was men went out to work, mm-hmm brought where the breadwinners in the family and the woman stayed at home, looked after the children. Obviously, things have evolved and are changing and men's roles are now changing as well. How does the modern man be able to fulfill his Obligations, being the modern man, helping out with the home, helping with the children, etc. Bringing the children up, as well as being able to lead a fulfilled life for themselves? How, how is how? Can the two work together, side by side?
Speaker 2:What's happening, as you see in statistics, is regression toward the mean like things. How self-correct you know the stock market may get way out there or way down below. It'll come back toward the middle. What we're seeing right now is more of a balance, because out of balance, the old days where the guy just goes to work and you've seen some of the shows in on last 50, you know 50, 1950s, 60s dad, 70s, dad brings home money and it's really not involved in the family room, metaphorically, he's in the boardroom. That's out of balance. It's out of balance for the wife and for the husband, and a man who's balanced, who is connected with the home and is connected at work, it's much more effective in both places. You know, it's not like there's less of him, there's more of them because there's more energy in it. You know, and that's what guys I think are starting to discover, women are the. They feel more fulfilled because it someone. Why don't you both? And God bless them for doing that. You know they want to be a mom. I've got women that want to be a mom and also have a career and they find a way to do it and they're not stealing from Paul to pay Peter. They find a balance. I think it's more balance, as, dr. What we're seeing now, masculinity is coming more back to a balance not so far out there where it's just one dynamic one dimensional. I know in World War II guys left for four or five years, understandable, but now we're back toward the Middlemore and that's why I think the crisis is how do we find balance? And guys think, well, if I'm not, if I'm emotional with my kids, I'm not that strong guy. No, no, no, no, no, no. You're more, you're more comprehensive, you're more well-rounded, you're going to live longer. That heart attack statistic, that's almost 400,000 men in this country, united States, die every year from that emotional blockage within them, whether it be from a heartbreak, a divorce, a loss or their children moving away. If we deal with that, dr, at that balance, we're more effective. So that's what's happening. The crisis has changed.
Speaker 2:Another one to bring up. I get asked a lot what gets men to change and we know through history psychologically or in the Eastern psychology, the word is despair. Your comfort level is here and you may be despairing, but once you exceed this level, men change. Classic example I have a guy in my practice more money than God has, poo-poo therapy and demeaned his wife for years, comes home there's a divorce letter on his pillow. I've taken the kids, moved out, I'm done. I'm not putting up with you. If you want to talk to me, you need to go to therapy and have your therapist call my therapist. Guess who has time to come to my office on a Tuesday night at 8 o'clock? That gentleman. And he is completely bereft. His whole world's turned upside down and he says to me what do I do? I go. Well, I don't know if it's dead, the relationship's gone.
Speaker 2:But 70% of divorces are because of a lack of vulnerability. 30% because weird stuff happens. Ok, I'm like abused and I'm just the way out there. But the 70%, doctor, is for guys that are not emotionally available to themselves or their wife. And I tell the guy you've got to find yourself in order. If you want to, if there's any hope of saving this marriage, you've got to find yourself first and get connected to him. He goes I provide her everything yet but you're a jerk at home, you're mean, you're not kind, you don't connect. She feels like a widow and she lives with you. That's the crisis, it's finding the balance for men and that's the long answer, dr Vaughan, to give that to you.
Speaker 1:The difficulty for men especially and it's the same with dentists. We don't like to go and see people, we don't like to talk about our feelings, we'd rather be macho and keep it all in. And how do you encourage men to not be like that anymore?
Speaker 2:I like the gentleman that was in my office last week. He said to me how did I get here? I go. You think weakness is talking about how you feel, but it's a paradox. That's courage, that's strength, that's insight.
Speaker 2:You want a woman to love. You understand yourself. That is a magnet for respect. And I tell men that you don't want your wife, your girlfriend and your partner to love you. You want them to respect you. Because you respect somebody, you'll always love them, but you love somebody and never respect them. That happens. But, doc, that's.
Speaker 2:I tell men there's a lot in you. You've got to tap into it. Just because you don't want to see it doesn't mean it's not there. Now a lot of guys will get lost in sports and I say you, sports is a third party to open up Because you've got a couple guys you can talk to. Well, that's unconsolidable. I don't want to be seen as weak or feminine. It's courage to talk about your feelings, it's courage to do that that's. I think men are realizing this more and more. The value is going indoors. There's a value in there, untapped doctor, but it's in there. And Dennis, or lawyers, or medical doctors or psychologists either psychologists I work with experts, expert witnesses, or they'll go an inch deep, but I'm not saying we have to go at the bottom of the ocean every time. But there's a fluency, there's a strength, doctor, there's an endurance, an emotional endurance to engage with people and understand. Excuse me, does that make sense? Am I making?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, absolutely You're giving me that blank steer dog. No, no absolutely.
Speaker 1:What I wanted to understand was obviously, with women, a lot of the time the emotions are on the surface and you can kind of usually read, or a lot of the time they'll want to give how they're feeling and then let people know. With men and I think a lot of women probably complain about this is that it's very difficult to understand what's really going on inside and we don't like being vulnerable, we don't like talking to people or telling people really what's going on inside, and I think that's the thing with this obviously pandemic, perhaps with suicide and why people are because the fact that they just feel like they can't tell someone, because if they did, then it's kind of, like you said, a vulnerability or weakness or something.
Speaker 1:And how do we like especially sometimes you do have conversations with people, even in my life of where people are confiding in you, and sometimes they'll tell you that yeah, sometimes I have thought about killing myself or something like that, and you obviously do want to probe that a little bit more. But then at the same time you don't know whether they've meant it in a jokey way or a sarcastic way, or whether they genuinely meant it or how they meant it. I mean, if you do come across perhaps friends, colleagues, people who talk like this, what tips would you give someone and what kind of support would be necessary for them?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I appreciate it. I really like that question, dr, because if someone's talking they can say a joke. Now do you want to be with me or should I just kill myself Anybody who says that it's not a joke.
Speaker 2:It may be said jokingly, it may be kind of Dr Off the Cuff, kind of a throwaway statement, but they said it, so that means there's been thought about it. And I tell guys, if you hear your friend, your buddy say that, go, what is it that scares you, what is it that's overwhelming? Those two questions can kind of help the person get out of that tunnel. What's scaring you? What feels overwhelming? Because overwhelming breeds feeling hopeless. And many times I just give up. Because they lose that connection, dr, to their self. They lose that inner connection and suicide's not selfish Suicide's despair, and it's distortion that you don't matter or you're disconnected. And a lot of times families say, well, he was really selfish, he killed himself. No, no, no, no, no, he wasn't thinking straight, because if he was thinking straight he wouldn't have killed himself, or she wouldn't have done that. Or the teenage boy that got caught cheating thinks it's the end of the world and kills himself. No, he doesn't realize that he can come back from that. You can survive this. They've lost hope. They've lost that connection, dr. To another one. Someone jokes about killing themselves. As I always say, it's not a joke, they say it jokingly, but there's a grain of truth, because people who aren't thinking about it don't say that. They don't say it and if they're saying that, they've thought about it for a long time, even though they're joking about it.
Speaker 2:And the thing with men, the United States, your recent sense of the shutdown is they used to say mental health issues, which they are, but what they've realized loneliness tends to be the biggest indicator for suicide with men. Where the men are isolated, women are better at that. I really admire that. But men who get isolated, socially or professionally, friendship-wise, they can be married, but they can be very isolated, dr. And during the shutdown there were some guys who made them come in my office because I was the only person they saw and I knew them. Coming in, kept them alive and they said that they needed that connection. I needed it too. It was good.
Speaker 2:So I always say to guys if you weren't lonely, what would be happening? You know you're alone, but there's this isolation and disconnection, dr. That's the number one. What I've seen in the last five years is a real barometer for levels of dangerousness. And always when in doubt, you always call an emergency room. The doctors there are trained, the nurses, when in doubt, call your doctor genuinely A friend. And why don't want to upset him? I'd rather upset him than he's alive, than go to his funeral. I don't know if I can answer your question, dr.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely Really powerful. I think I'm just trying to work out practical because even myself, as men, we do suffer from loneliness, because we do spend a lot of time doing perhaps what we call mundane, boring things. But you know we're family just going out and yeah, some of that we do enjoy.
Speaker 1:But what you really enjoy as a man is a male company Having a laugh with your male friends going for a drink going for a coffee, having a little joke about, talking about perhaps a sport or whatever, and the adrenaline and the excitement I get through that is something else and it's something that you can't really replicate in any other area of life. Because having that chat with your mates and just having that banter and the jokingness and you don't have to watch what you say, in a way Right when you're around women you have to be a bit careful about some of the language or the words that you use. You don't want to hurt anyone's feelings or whatever, but as men it's kind of like we're kind of used to a little bit picking on each other, a little bit of friendly banter and things like that.
Speaker 2:My life doesn't understand it. You guys pick on each other too much. I go no, that's how we show appreciation. I'm talking within reason, Doc, Just joking. The banter Guys love that. That's how we connect.
Speaker 1:You know Just joking Doc.
Speaker 2:I tell guys there are people in your life we can connect with and having that give you once a week, whenever. Even that you know I got, I got some buddies. I mean, call occasionally, we'll get together and when. But it keeps in the back of my mind, it's always a great outlet. You always have it, you carried in you, you know, and that way you come to your relationship with your family and your wife with more energy absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think I've. Every man at least within the week should have that time, whether it's two or three hours in the something on a Friday or whatever you know, with your friends. It might be that you go and play a sport, you might go for a coffee, you might go for drinks, you might go for whatever you might want to want to go for, just spending those two or three hours. And I know myself that after I've done that I feel so much better because I've had, such as perhaps a stressful week at work, etc. Spending those two, three hours, switching off. You don't even necessarily need to share anything, it's just you having that and having. The thing is we all go through the same struggle and you know, but I think, men, we understand each other as well because we kind of have similar thoughts and even some of the way we think as well. Sometimes it can be a bit childish, but but some of the way we think, other the things we go through is exactly the same. So it's nice to get that.
Speaker 2:You know that free kind of spirit yeah, doctor, it's part of the reason why a a works so well. Group therapy, that group support and magic and having a couple buddies, it's group, it's that group support. It's not the fault, it's not the number of it is the connection. It's the connection that really feeds us, the emotional connection you know, and sometimes they're going to a sporting event or golfing or something, but there's still that connection. It's really valuable, invaluable. You know, that's so, that's really so.
Speaker 2:The new masculinity, doctor, it's really the new balance, a, the title book, a new masculinity out. You know, I'm not saying mine's the only way, but it is. It is a road, you know, to roam, you know, kind of it's going to help you develop more of what you want, who you are, what you want to be, and having your buddies and sharing those, since they know you, they know when you're off, they know when you're on, they can help you know so tell us a little bit more about the impact of the mother and the father and how that so it affects you older and when you're older, and is it predetermined and you know how does it?
Speaker 1:how does this all link together to adulthood?
Speaker 2:so, doc, it's predetermined. If you and I don't understand it, you know it's like in the ocean there's a rip tied underneath. On the surface the water looks calm but underneath, you know, it'll pull you down the beach and if you're not careful you'll drown. Much of what we learn about for our dads is what we do outside the house. Much we learn from our moms is how we emotionally connect and problem solve, resolve issues. And I don't over simplify. That's fundamental.
Speaker 2:And a lot of women, a lot of sons and daughters, they saw their dads go to work and many times I understood what he did. But they see his work, ethic and what he did outside the house. It. There's such an unconscious the kids taken in, they really they realized this is what they do, this is how it works, and they see their father out in the world. Now many people you know they were their dads or the divorce, but they know their dads out there working and he is always there. He's a backstop and we only see them. A Kate, you know a lot of kids that don't see their dads that often but they're connected to him and they know he's working. They know he's out there and providing and the mom at home.
Speaker 2:That's how we learn, how our emotional IQ, emotional intelligence as I understand what's going on in here okay, it's not book smarts, it's, it's how to read people, really read yourself. If you read yourself, you can read others, you know. That's that's the key. And moms really teach communication, how to problem solve. And then the mother factor and father factor together help you form your identity. And for men I say this a lot in all my books. You know we cut the umbilical cord at birth. We understand that.
Speaker 2:But the second thing, the local court, is the emotional one start about age 18 to 27 men. They're able to cut that and stand on feet emotionally, still connect their moms and their family, but they become emotionally self-sufficient. They tend to have the most successful relationships because they don't replace their mother with their wife or the partner they know. You know, because no woman wants to be the mother of her husband. I mean, no woman anywhere will sign up for that, you know.
Speaker 2:So that that's really the father teaches you how to go out in the world, how to problem solve, how to manage, and non verbally, doc. Non verbally, it's non verbal stuff you learn that you have to become aware of so you're not like an unguided missile, because you really are God. You're just not aware of what's driving you, and the more you're aware of it, what's the rules? How do you handle money, jobs, commitments, like what's success? All that's the father factor in the world, and the mother factor is how do we connect with people, how do we nurture ourselves and our partners? Equally as important, equally as valuable, but very different simultaneously.
Speaker 1:That makes sense doc, am I making yeah, yeah, and how does that relate like it with with siblings? Because obviously sometimes we all have different personalities and smiling.
Speaker 1:You know what one thing you know is, for example, is usually the eldest child has perhaps a lot more closeness or affection with the parents because they were the first ones, and then the youngest ones tend to be spoiled. I mean, is there any truth in that? And obviously they tend to be a bit louder and more competitive because they want to be seen, to be heard, the youngest one. So how does that play out as well in the, in the psychology, and how does that manifest into adulthood as well?
Speaker 2:you know, doctor it out, here at University of California in Los Angeles, ucla, the 20, 30 years ago they did a study on birth order. You know, like one, two and three, like at least three kids or two kids, the only child syndrome having two kids, three, four. It's interesting what they kind of said birth order is real, whether you want to believe it or not. And what you said, doc, many times, the first, the oldest, sometimes is a super achiever or a huge underachiever because the we're so much pressure and criticalness on the older one, by the time the little one comes along they're like in the fast lane. It's just like they got raised by a different group of people, yeah, and like they're just moving right along.
Speaker 2:Or you know, in this doctor, this you know, people talk about, whether it be the Persian culture, asian, italian, jewish. It's unilateral, it's across the word doc. Birth order is birth order and it has as much as its cultural. It's human, you know, it's the human factor. But it's real, doc. And sibling rivalry is starts with the parents and doc I hate to say the way to say it it's when the parents favor one child over the other. It's not equality. Now you have two children, one's a son and one a doc. You technically generally don't have a sibling rivalry because you know the daughter identifies the mom. Or when there's three daughters, sometimes the dad will favor one daughter and not be, you know. Or the mother will favor there's three sons, one son because he kind of substitutes for the husband.
Speaker 1:That's when we get in trouble doc that's when we get on to the dirt road of life there is this favor, favoritism and I think we all parents have to admit there are perhaps favorites that they have. They'll never openly admit it and they'll never openly say it, but I think it's. I think it's subconscious as well. I don't think, yes, someone does it on like a deliberate basis either. It's kind of naturally. You might feel a bit more affection because it for a particular child, because they came at a particular time or I'm event in your life and I think that can influence how you feel about a child as well doctor, it's the truth.
Speaker 2:Some children are difficult from one parent. I have couples in my practice where the son is really easy for the father because he understands them, when the bothers like, oh my god, he's impossible you know, or the dad's like oh my god, my son's impossible always find new Malone.
Speaker 2:A lot of times has to do with the personality of the child also. But I tell parents, if you have a problem with child, a particular child, that's more about you, what's unresolved in your life, and parents don't want to hear that, myself included. You know if and when in doubt you think your favorite other child emotionally connecting to the other child, spending time with them, connecting with them, will always pay dividends, even though they may not, you may not see the results of it, but kids know when you like them. I tell parents you know, work on liking your children on. Of course you go love them, but liking them goes a lot further.
Speaker 2:You know I had a seven-year-old my office, a sweet, adorable boy, and I go did your mom like you? And sometimes, when doesn't she like you, I don't want to listen. Okay, that's fair. You know he's like yeah, it was cute, I got you. Did your mom? Oh, yeah, mom was me sometimes doesn't like it, I don't listen, I go. So what can we do about that? I know, I know she says I need to listen more, you know, but it was really good. He has a good relationship. But it was like he felt, even though he and she admits sometimes I love you. But sometimes it's really hard because you don't listen.
Speaker 2:You know, and it was really good they've real you know, that little boy feels safe because she didn't disagree with him. That's what I get in duck for a second we could say let's say you are, you and mom, fighting, and you really are, but you don't know. No, no, no, we're fine. No, kids, it's going to be validated for their. They're not really worried that you're fighting, but their thought validate their intuition. I know it sounds counterintuitive, doc. This little boy asked his mom are you and dad getting divorced? She goes, that might happen. Oh, okay, that was it. So what are we doing? I'm going to go swimming today. I mean, it's like, that's all. She did not invalidate his thought. He wasn't worried. If she had said no, then he'd start questioning himself, it sounds. I tell parents, if your child says you, dad, do you drink too much sometimes? Yes, I do, and it's not good, okay, then they feel safe because they can trust themselves. Is that me since, doc.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So so validate, validate by saying look, you are right in what you say.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and they're not really worried about because we put all the meaning overlay means on it. But this goes back to sibling rivalry. When you validate your children's insight, they don't have the rivalry because, you know, do you sometimes do give Samantha extra time? Yeah, I'm going to work on giving you more time. Okay, you have just now neutralized the rivalry. Does that make sense, doc?
Speaker 1:Absolutely, absolutely. Obviously, we live in an age I mean you're probably seeing it yourself there's been a huge rise in mental health crisis across all ages, across the board. The pandemic has certainly not helped. One thing I have seen more and more of is young children being affected, whether that's through social media or whether that's through experiences, and I have noticed as well in my surgery as well as listening to healthcare professionals and increasing perhaps you know, for example, especially teenage girls self-harming, and then we've got obviously the boys or the men perhaps, increasing violence and aggression and things like that.
Speaker 1:And what kind of things do you think we can do to help children of this era, because life is, I mean, my probably upbringing was very different to your upbringing and now things have completely radically changed in terms of experience and in terms of technology and in terms of the impact of social media on people. What do you think Practical tips Can you give our viewers about that?
Speaker 2:I'd love to do that and first I want to. I think, doctor, there isn't a rise in it. I think there's an awareness because before the stuff went under the table or under the carpet, because you watch these TV shows, like America on some of the streaming, like the show Mad Men, and the stuff that went on in the 1950s and 60s, today would be a 911 alarm. You know, it's always been going on. It's now being exposed and with women in the workplace, the boys club is now the gigs up. It's exposed and teenage violence and abuse has been there forever. I'm not trying to be, I'm not being pessimistic. I love the fact that awareness is right. See, it's not the problem. The awareness of it has, you know, like eating disorders and men, they're saying it's epidemic. No, it's not, it's always been there. Now we're acknowledging it. Or women that have been sexually harassed at work, it's always been there, but now we're aware of it as an example.
Speaker 2:But going back to mental health, the teenagers, that again, doctor, is being disconnected, you know, because high instant rate of teenage suicide is 16 and 19 year old boys and the second group is 16, 19 year old women, because they're at the age where they're not a child, they're not a fully adult, but they're not no man's land and they feel very disconnected. And that's I tell people. It's connecting with people. It'd be with a friend, parent, a therapist that starts to get them out of that rut. Doctor, and to expose what's going on. You know, sporting that I have for boys being involved in sports at school, invaluable, and for girls Will there be with sports also having some framers. But bullying's always been there. But before it was dismissed it was dismissed. Now social media exposes it. So I see it as a positive doctor. All this stuff's going on. It's always been there. Now it's up on the table.
Speaker 1:Do you do, I think, things like Instagram and tick tock and, and you know? I'm not gonna say it's helping young girls wanting to look like, or feeling like they have to look like, some model that they see on Instagram and these different photos and filters. Do you not think that could have a damaging impact on their self esteem and their body image and how they feel about themselves?
Speaker 2:Hey, doctor, that's been there before. It might. It was in magazines. You know it's been there before was? You know it's always been there. But in the last 50, 60 years, you know the magazines, now it's on. You know the handheld phones here, doc, but it's that pressure's been there. Now it's been, it's up on the table and that's where realizing that who you are inside is your best, is your best asset.
Speaker 2:And that gets back to connections parenting, you know, keeping track of your children emotionally. I tell that to dads. Well, my son's 17, eight, he doesn't need me more. I go no, no, no, no, he needs you more. Now I want to say this boys between 18 and 30 needs their dad's involvement more than they needed it from 10 to 18. What's the involvement? Your guardrails. You help them navigate their 20s. Daughters need their father's involvement in the same way. That helps them give, guide them forward, not manage them, just be guardrails. And a lot of those issues, Doc, get resolved. But I need to be a model, I need to wear certain brands and kids do that a lot of times because they feel they're filling the gap, because there's not that emotional relationships there, but they're friends or with people in their life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely yeah. How do we help them? Because a lot of the time, especially when you talk to teenagers, and even sometimes they come shadow me and I've never experienced it. It's like things are different now. You don't understand what we have to go through. You kind of think to yourself. In fact, I was exactly where you were all those years ago.
Speaker 2:And I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Speaker 2:There's nothing really changing that, doc, there's something I saw on Facebook or Instagram If you were born in 1900 and you lived in 1985, what you witnessed in your lifetime we have not witnessed that. A nuclear war, three world wars, what they went through in that 85 years make us look like sipping lemonade on the back patio, but it's that time in life, doctor, between 16 and 24, 25, you don't know which ends up. That is universal and when you're in it, it feels like no one understands you and, as a parent, your job is to remain open and find out what they want.
Speaker 2:Not what we want as parents, but what they want. Eventually, you'll help them find their way.
Speaker 1:So sometimes it's difficult because I sometimes have parents asking me to speak to their children because they're deciding on their careers and they want me to sort of inspire them to become perhaps a dentist or something like that. And you're sort of at a conflict because in an ideal world you want the teenager to make a decision on sound reasoning and based on all the different options they have and be able to have that maturity of understanding the implications. But the problem that we have now is, I feel like some of them aren't mature enough. I probably wasn't mature enough at the age of 18 making the decision to become a dentist, but it was really difficult because you want to sort of instill to them that you want to go into a career where it is well paid and you do have a job and there's progression, career progression options, rather than choosing.
Speaker 1:Perhaps you know, and sometimes it might seem, but obviously there's this trend nowadays follow your passion, and I'm not sure I fully agree with it because I don't think that your passion changes all the time. So I'm not really sure I agree with that mentality of following your passion all the time.
Speaker 2:That's part of why I have gray hair. I hear the word passion is give me a plan, because a plan actualizes passion and interest. So I tell guys, between 20 and 30, your life, your sole duty, is life experience, different career. 30 to 40, you start to zero in on what you want to do. 40 to 65 70 is when you maximize everything. You build your. You know that's when you maximize your career, all you learn, your 30,000 hours and what you do. After 65 and 70, you reap the benefits, whether it's retirement, you're a consultant.
Speaker 2:But your 20s, I tell guys, like job experience, it's gonna give you an idea where you want to go. And your 30s, you start to narrow it down, doc. And 40s, you're on your way. I tell them you're not missing something if you don't know it. 27, it's life experience. That's where I get them back, doc. Not to get panicked, I've guys come in if I can miss the boat. They're 25. I go no, no, no, you're not on the boat, get on the boat, get on the boat, don't worry about missing it. All right. I hope that's helpful, dr that's been really, really helpful.
Speaker 1:Any lasting thoughts for the viewers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, dr, I, first of all. I hope I don't even cover a lot of territory when, in doubt, ask yourself what's going on. And I don't know is code for I don't wanna know it, cause you do know it. You know you're the problem and the solution in a good way, it's within you. I tell guys all the time they tell me I don't know what's going on, I go well, it's not true, well, it might be this. And then, boom, the door opens. You don't give yourself a pass in the word. I don't know, but I say it to myself. I go come on, knock it off. You know, you know what's going on. You don't wanna know, but you know.
Speaker 2:And lastly, doc, I tell parents when your child needs to separate from you, they may stop talking to you for a season. That's a good sign, cause they're trying to create their own life, and that's what parenting is about Launching kids. Kids released vehicles. We don't own them. They're given to us for a period of time. Our job is to help launch them, not own them. That does not mean a lot of popularity, doctor.
Speaker 1:No, I absolutely agree. I think children are the greatest gifts that were given as parents, and our job is to nurture them, love them, care for them, give them the best life and be there for them. And I think the issue you have is that expectation. I hope that you know. My children make me proud, but I always say to my wife as well, I'm always saying, look, we can't expect too much from them in return. At the end of the day, our job is to just make them the best, the most kindest human beings we can and hopefully use our, create, our legacy, and that's all. I want my children to be just good human beings, well respected in the community, and I'd be more than happy than any other job title.
Speaker 2:Dr, absolutely. Our job is I tell boys, I tell dads our job is to civilize our sons. A civilized son is a kind man and he's a velvet covered brick. That's wonderful. And for daughters is to know that they're valuable and they're cared for. Then they have the confidence, competence to go out in the world and make a difference. Mom's do the same. I tell dads. And lastly, doc, there are a lot of guys, fathers are strange from their kids. They don't know what to do. I always say pick up the phone and call them. You don't know how much they want to hear from you. They may not tell you, they'll appreciate it. That's what I'm gonna leave my listeners with.
Speaker 1:They'll appreciate that Pick up the phone create meaningful relationship Absolutely it's never too late.
Speaker 2:Don't buy into that, don't get stubbornness.
Speaker 1:Don't get rid of any. Just pick up the phone, have a chat, Whoever it is. If you've got these strange relationships, then deal with them by communicating and talking to each other and ironing things out, because things are not as bad as you think. So we'll leave it there. Thanks guys for watching. In fact, tomorrow we've got a coach from actually the US, Bob Affleck. You may have heard of him. He's on tomorrow, so looking forward to that tomorrow, guys, I'll send you more details later on. Thanks guys for watching. Take care, enjoy the rest of the week and see you tomorrow. Thanks bye.
Speaker 2:Take care.