Do you ever wonder about the story behind a successful entrepreneur? Today, we'll take you on an inspiring journey with Olumide Ojo, a top dentist in London and the co-founder of Smile Fast. As a first-generation immigrant from Nigeria, Mide's story is a testament to resilience and determination. He shares his experiences with us - from his formative years in Lincolnshire, where he was the first black child to attend his secondary school, to his incredible achievements in the field of dentistry.
Mide is not just an entrepreneur, but a man dedicated to his craft. He emphasises the importance of honesty in dental practice, the need for continuous learning, and the role of mentors in perfecting skills. We go in-depth on the topic of cosmetic dentistry and explore the significance of patient communication. MIde spills the beans on how he started his practice, co-founded Smile Fast, a composite bonding system designed to make cosmetic work more consistent and reproducible. We also discuss the importance of maintaining a balanced lifestyle - something every entrepreneur struggles to achieve.
Fasten your seatbelts as we plunge into more intricate aspects of dentistry with Mide. We discuss composite bonding, the rise of facial aesthetics clinics, and the importance of offering patients the best treatment options. He opens up about how to deal with criticism in the dental community and how he navigates it. His passion for football also makes an appearance, a testament to his balanced approach to life. So tune in, get inspired, and extract valuable insights from the story of one of London's top dentists.
Do you ever wonder about the story behind a successful entrepreneur? Today, we'll take you on an inspiring journey with Olumide Ojo, a top dentist in London and the co-founder of Smile Fast. As a first-generation immigrant from Nigeria, Mide's story is a testament to resilience and determination. He shares his experiences with us - from his formative years in Lincolnshire, where he was the first black child to attend his secondary school, to his incredible achievements in the field of dentistry.
Mide is not just an entrepreneur, but a man dedicated to his craft. He emphasises the importance of honesty in dental practice, the need for continuous learning, and the role of mentors in perfecting skills. We go in-depth on the topic of cosmetic dentistry and explore the significance of patient communication. MIde spills the beans on how he started his practice, co-founded Smile Fast, a composite bonding system designed to make cosmetic work more consistent and reproducible. We also discuss the importance of maintaining a balanced lifestyle - something every entrepreneur struggles to achieve.
Fasten your seatbelts as we plunge into more intricate aspects of dentistry with Mide. We discuss composite bonding, the rise of facial aesthetics clinics, and the importance of offering patients the best treatment options. He opens up about how to deal with criticism in the dental community and how he navigates it. His passion for football also makes an appearance, a testament to his balanced approach to life. So tune in, get inspired, and extract valuable insights from the story of one of London's top dentists.
Hi everyone, welcome to episode five of the Diary of a Dental Coach podcast. We've had some phenomenal guests this time round on series two the top dentists in the UK, actually. So we started off with Amon Bharti. What an amazing guy, what an amazing story. He's got an implant clinic in Leeds and his advice was just to take every opportunity and never say no. Then we had Neil Qatari, who writes a lot for dental magazines, and then we've had Dr Sanj Pandere, top endodontist. Everyone knows of him, top, top guy. And last week we had Stuart Campbell, who's a prostodontist based in Scotland. Today we've got one of the top dentists, or leading dentists in London, olamidi Ojo. Welcome, olamidi, to the show.
Speaker 2:Hi Madisah, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:So obviously we all know you from Smile Fast and being the co-founder of Smile Fast. So what we do on this show is journey through your story and learn how you became successful. So before we went live on air, we were talking about how you came to the UK at the age of six. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, so I'm a first generation immigrant or immigrant family from Nigeria, which, as you know, is a pretty big sort of gene pool for people coming over to the UK. So there's a lot of Nigerians that moved over and, yeah, i was one of them. My dad was a doctor. He qualified in Nigeria, but then he got offered a job in the UK and after a while the whole family came over.
Speaker 1:Excellent, and you spent a large portion of your childhood in Lincolnshire, is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, so from the age of 11 to 18, so the formative years again being in the medical industry, my dad's jobs moved around from hospital to hospital. So he got a job in Lincolnshire which at the time was still is quite a rural, quiet place. But at the time when I grew up it was very rural, very quiet. So initially there was some resistance to the mood but once we got sort of settled in it was probably quite a fortunate upbringing, i would say. You know safe, there's no sort of crime or a limited amount of crime and limited access to things that would get me into trouble.
Speaker 2:Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1:One of the things you've mentioned was before we went live was that you were the first black child that went to your secondary school. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, i was the first, followed by my sister who was the second two years afterwards. So yeah, we grew up in Lincoln itself, which is the city which is obviously a lot more populated. But we actually went to school in a place called Horn Castle, which is a very small commuter village, maybe 30 minutes outside of Lincolnshire and I don't know if you've only been to Lincolnshire, but the roads are really windy, so you're talking like getting stuck behind a tractor and then there's no way around. You have to sit behind a tractor for half an hour 45 minutes. So it was right out in the sticks.
Speaker 2:But it was a great school. It was a grammar school and my dad felt that was the best school for us. So we did the 11 plus, got the place. And yeah, i was. Not only was I the first black kid at the school, i came with a really strong Yorkshire accent, having lived in Huddersfield for the previous five, six years. So I came and I must have looked different and certainly sounded different. So I think it was certainly a bit of a culture shock for the school when I rocked up.
Speaker 1:Anyway, So how would you describe it? were kids nice to you or they receptive to you? what was the situation when you first joined and did you get some looks, perhaps, and things? how would you describe it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean, i certainly remember it being different, but again, i think for anybody coming into a new school and the thing that happened was I joined the school in year seven but halfway through the year so I'd started the first half of the year in Wakefield and I went to a school called Quakes in Wakefield and it was an old boys school. I went from that environment to a very different environment. So, yeah, i think you know they didn't know what was going on, but also, i think, more importantly, they'd already made friendship groups and friendships had already been formed. So I came in being different, looking different, sounding different and also a disadvantage because all the friendships were made and I must say it probably took me about 18 months to really sort of be accepted. And the thing that sort of helped me was sport. I was very, very sporty. So once they knew that I was good at sport, then particularly for the guys, i think sport Football.
Speaker 1:What was it you were good at?
Speaker 2:I was a football guy and played a lot of football, so as soon as I started banging in a few goals I was more readily accepted.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So when you look back at your school years, do you look back at them fondly? what are your memories of school?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i would say fondly. I mean again, probably like anyone being you know your teenage years. I think the first few sort of the early teens were tough, you know, maybe struggling with identity, knowing what you wanted to do. But yeah, sport was a big level for me. So the more sport I played, the more popular I became and it kind of made life easier. And then I think I was probably a bit of a late bloomer academically and I was always. I was talking with my parents this weekend and then my report was very much the same. It was MIDI could try harder. So I think I coasted all the way through up until maybe GCSEs and then, maybe about four weeks before GCSEs, i realised how important it was and then I pulled. I pulled it out of the bag. I did okay in my GCSEs and then did better in my levels and yeah, i think I timed it.
Speaker 1:How much of an influence was your dad in all this? because obviously really respected doctor you know did really really well. Obviously it's a big thing for somebody, especially from Nigeria coming over to the UK, getting a job etc. Here would you say he was a bit of a big influence in your life at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, a massive influence. But I think the big thing is again and I'm sure you know everyone appreciates every culture is different and in Nigerian culture, and like many others, respect is a very big thing and you know, i'll be honest, you know our parents were pretty authoritative. You know, if they said something, that was it. There was no, no negotiation, whereas I've got 12 year old daughter now and I have to write an essay before she agrees to anything. You know it's a real negotiation now. But yeah, no, my parents were pretty strict, pretty firm, pretty clear it's a very disciplined major.
Speaker 1:You kind of did well at school, pushed you in the right way as well, i would say so.
Speaker 2:I mean, it was very clear that you know. But again, like you know many, many, many families. You know they had three kids, so they couldn't sit and make you do it, but you know the consequences. If you didn't do well, were you know, they would tell you straight. You know, if you wanted access to things, you have to work for it. That's something I got told, but again, as a kid, you always try and find a way around it. But then, when it came to exam results, if I didn't do well, then that was it, and so my respect for my parents is what I would say drove me to to sort of try and improve myself, and then it was only when I realized I had to do it for myself, though, that I actually the penny dropped, you know.
Speaker 1:So how would you describe yourself? you know, in your teenage years were you quite outspoken, were you quite shy, what? what kind of you know? how would perhaps your peer groups describe yours?
Speaker 2:Gosh, that's a good question. I've never really thought about it. I always thought I was cool, but again, maybe lacking a little bit of self-confidence, you know. But I think the bravado on the outside made you look like I was more confident again. Sport meant that on the, on the football pitch, you had to, you know, have an alias. You know, and I used to have, like, different aliases, particularly in sport, you know, because everyone would say, oh, midi, midi, you know. So that kind of made me feel more invincible. Yeah, i think there was a few. There were a few things, i think.
Speaker 2:Again, culturally, you know, my parents were very strict. So, you know, going out to parties and things or buying whatever you wanted in terms of clothes, i didn't have access to that. So I think that's the bit that probably knocked my confidence where, you know. So you see your friends wearing the latest. I don't know if you agree with this also, but you know they wear the latest designer everything, and my parents were like buying everything either secondhand or, you know, the cheapest of the cheap, because they didn't understand most of the culture that they came from. It wasn't that important. It wasn't important to them, and now I think you know, to be honest, i look at my kids and I think maybe you know there's something to be said from my parents holding back and not giving us everything, because I try not to do it with my kids, but it's a lot harder.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think I think it's really important.
Speaker 1:Obviously I've got young kids as well and these are things we always think about, you know, because obviously, perhaps on a wealth level, us guys are probably doing better than our parents to some extent. So perhaps we kind of you know, nowadays there's a thing of where you give the kids lap, you know, ipads and the latest, and some kids are even getting phones at a very, very early age and it's a very difficult thing because obviously things are changing, like all the kids have phones, for example, and then you know your child comes home, says I want, i want a phone, but what I was going to get at was perhaps this kind of mentality of having to work for something perhaps has spurred you on later on in life, whereas if everything came on a plate, you're never going to work for it. And it's one of the things that's full successful people you know try to implement in their children rather than giving it on the on a plate kind of thing, trying to get them to to do better or work towards something and push themselves.
Speaker 2:I can't agree more. I think you're actually right. And then I do try and again, society doesn't make it easy, because the thing is you also don't want your child to feel necessarily, you know, not left out, but you know you don't want them to be alienated. So there is a balance out, i find there's a balance. But my uncle, one of my uncles, is a very successful businessman, you know, multi-multi-millionaire, and he's the one that gave the least, says kids growing up. And now you know, some of his children are extremely successful and they, you know, it's the simple principles that they were raised with that have sort of stood them in good stead in business as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that you notice with really successful people they're the more sort of hard upbringing they have, the more they drive forward. So you know it's. You know a lot of the successful people they generally come from. You know underprivileged backgrounds and that living in that has driven them to further success. So tell us how you, how did the choice of dentistry come about?
Speaker 2:So, as I said, i was a bit of a late bloomer but my dad being in the medical industry and I kind of I was always good at the sciences, so I kind of put two and two together and thought, well, i'm going to sort of look at the, the medical, the medical industry, and I started looking at, i did a couple of these taster sessions in for medicine and then I did work experience in a hospital a local hospital and my dad organized it, but he made the mistake of putting me on the geriatrics ward and that was probably the single most soul-destroying day of my life. You know watching people in their commodes and having their, you know having to get their their, you know their toilet change and all of this kind of stuff. So that kind of put me off.
Speaker 1:Well, perhaps it wasn't, because if you had gone down that path, you wouldn't be here sat here, don't you Successful entrepreneur? so sometimes that's what I say. I always say that the dots connect. There's always reasons for experiences, and probably it was almost like intentional, even though you didn't know it at the time, that this happened that way, because it made you then obviously come towards dentistry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, i think you're right. I mean, and I think you know, even from I would say that, yeah, i wasn't a natural. I don't know. What do you think? what do you think the natural qualities of a dentist are? Didn't there are sort of?
Speaker 1:qualities. I think it is very interesting because there was somebody I won't mention his name, but you put a post on a dental marketing group and his question was would you, would you rather have someone who's a technically gifted dentist but a low grosser, or an okay dentist and a high grosser? and it was interesting that the replies that people had. So you know, everyone's at different levels and we've all got different potentials and that's my belief that as long as you're the best version of yourself, so say. If you perhaps don't like the arty side of things, get yourself into oral surgery side and and start doing the other stuff. There's always ways of making money in dentistry. There's always ways of enjoying yourself along the way.
Speaker 2:I think Yeah no, i think the thing for me that I've learned with dentistry is careers. That I think if you're genuine and I think if you are someone who because it's healthcare at the end of the day I think if you tell people the truth and I think I learned that you know very early on in dentistry tell people what the best thing is for them. And you look someone and I say this is the best thing for you. Now you might not be able to do it, you might not be able to do it right now, but as long as you tell people the truth and you go with that sort of mindset, this is the best thing for you.
Speaker 2:I think people understand that they gravitate towards it and often if it's something that I say look, that's the best thing for you. You may not be able to afford it now, but they'll know that that's the right thing, so when they can afford it they'll come back to it. And then that's how I've sort of um um lived my life and in dentistry and I was fortunate enough to work in some, you know, really high-end practices where the best was the standard that was offered all the time, and once I got into that sort of environment. It really helps my career. And then, yeah, that's kind of how I sort of try and practice now just offer people the best And then we'd work from there.
Speaker 1:So tell us about. Yeah, you went to Newcastle University. What was that like? Obviously, it was significantly a distance from Lincoln show. What was that like?
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, i don't know if anyone else is like this, but I just wanted to get as far away from the folks as possible. No, it wasn't that. I went to Newcastle and I just had. You know, when you have those sliding door moments, and you know, even before I got the offer, i was like this is the place I want to go.
Speaker 2:The interview went perfectly, everything just fell into place And it was one of those really amazing sort of days. I still remember it to this day. Actually, my dad actually was applying for a job in Sunderland, funny enough, and his interview was on the same day as my interview. So we got the train together, which was unheard of. You know, never spent that much time with my dad during the week. Got the train together, you know, and he bought me lunch and dinner, you know all of that kind of thing, and it was one of those perfect days. And yeah, i just knew then that I was the place I was meant to be. And I mean, there's a city I don't know if you've been to Newcastle much, but it's a great city.
Speaker 1:My wife graduated from Newcastle. I've actually never been. I've actually never been, but I really liked the people, actually the people that, especially the people that I've met from Newcastle, I think they're very, very homely kind of people, the very welcoming kind of people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, honestly, merylis, i'd make sure you go, because it's like it's a bit of a no-access, because you know you go obviously through Yorkshire, you go really far up, but when you get there it's self-contained, it's got everything that you could ever want. It's got the coastline, it's got the countryside in Northumberland, it's obviously got you know, scotland, not far away, an hour and a bit away as well, it really is an untapped resource And it's on the East Coast. So, unlike Manchester, we don't get as much rain as you guys. So No, but it's a great place And the university, i should say, was a great mix. You know it's academic, but I think it sort of bred well-rounded clinicians, i think older clinicians like that.
Speaker 1:Would you look back at your experience at university like give you a good grounding into dentistry?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it did. I mean the first year. I mean it was a bit of a blur because I think I was partying every night. I failed my some of exams because I just went out every night. It was a painful lesson, you know, realized that this is actually real now And yeah. So then in terms of grounding, i would say I think it did. I think probably, i suspect, that the later generations have more technology that's helping their dental experience. I know we got experience doing, you know, treatments on patients, but I think the teaching element maybe could have been. It was a bit archaic, you know it was all. I don't know if you, we still had the acetates at one point, you know, before PowerPoint came, i think that kind of thing, and I think by third year it kind of gone to sort of PowerPoint and things. So the actual teaching experience was okay. But what really was amazing with the people that you connected with and I learned more from you know, talking with them.
Speaker 1:This is the criticism. Obviously I've had quite a few guests on this show And one of those things that people, especially the experienced dentists, are feeling is that the newer graduates, and probably myself, as the years are going on, the clinical experience is getting less and less And therefore there's more emphasis on the BT kind of training And sometimes and perhaps some people are being criticized by the younger dentists, which I think is a little bit unfair that they shunning the NHS and going straight into doing doing Invisalign, doing composite bonding and doing that. And I suppose it was different. You know, perhaps when you graduated Would you say you came out confident.
Speaker 2:No, i came out knowing what was right and what was wrong. I'm not saying I was confident to do it, i think I've got. You know, in my opinion, it takes two to three years post-graduation until you're sort of competent, because you always need to see everything at least once and you unfortunately have to see your own failures. So you know, it does worry me when you know kids oh, i call them kids, young professionals come out and say, yeah, i want to do Invisalign, i want to do Smilefast. You know I get people email say, oh, can I do the Smilefast course? Well, i'm still a BT And I genuinely say no or don't do it.
Speaker 2:It's a waste of money because you need to know all the options. As I said, you don't have to be able to do them all, but you need to know all the options. And actually, before you start offering too many solutions, because sometimes and again, you know I do a lot of mentoring for some, you know, for some younger dentists and some therapists as well And if every single, if you've only got one tool and it's a hammer, everything becomes a nail. And I think that's the danger with dentistry You can, there are situations where you start looking for that nail so you can just knock it in And it's the wrong way. You know. You need to tell the patient everything, as I said about the gold standard, tell them what the right thing is for them, but tell them all the options, and then it's not selling because you've said, look, this is what I believe is the best, these are all your options, and then work together with them, whereas if I said, oh, everything's a composite bonding, you know I'm gonna get myself in trouble.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, I think what my message would be as well is to learn to do the basics really really well first and get a good foundation of doing that before you move on to perhaps doing what we'd class as more advanced work you know, But where perhaps you're changing someone's smile, where perhaps you're, you know, moving teeth around, et cetera And do that after you've gained the skills in doing the basics really really well. I totally agree with that. How was your VT, your first experience outside, obviously, university life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was good. It was in a sort of a working town just outside Newcastle called Siem, in County Durham. It was an ex-mining town. So there were, you know, it wasn't the most affluent area, i think that's fair to say. It was quite sort of deprived in places. So there was a lot of, you know, caries, a lot of periodontal disease. So it really did. You know it was kind of dropped into the deep end.
Speaker 2:But my principal or VT trainer was brilliant Robin Barber, his name, lovely guy, and he kind of just allowed me to sort of build that rapport with patients which is the key thing that I learned in that year diagnosed. I remember the first time I diagnosed a patient with severe hypersensitivity from a class five lesion. You never forget that. You know a grown man, you know, in tears And I looked for everything. There was no caries And I was like he's making this up, he's mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, actually it's just a tiny little abrasion cavity, tiny, but it had gone straight into the nerve and it was causing him agony. But again, once I learned that and I understood that, like you know, someone comes in in pain, that much pain, they're not messing around, they're not joking, they've not come there for fun. Then you kind of connect the dots and then you kind of think you have to find the cause rather.
Speaker 1:So yeah, i had a great I think what you're saying here is diagnosis is key, isn't it Making sure you're treating the right problem, rather than Yeah, and always, i think, listen to the patient Absolutely. You can't emphasize that more than enough, because never assume anything. The more you listen to what they're telling you, the more you'll be able to work out what the problem is. But if you sort of dismiss it or think you already know the problem, then I think you can end up perhaps sometimes doing the wrong thing or finding the wrong solution to the problem and it doesn't deal with the problem. Or the patient comes back and says I'm still in pain, it's not really sorted my problem out.
Speaker 2:And 100%. And this is why I say it takes two to three years, because I think the first time you see it or you see it, you meet a patient and you think you've solved their problem.
Speaker 2:The second time and the third time. Then you sometimes realize that you've got it wrong. You've got it wrong. You've got it wrong until you understand And like you said, i think for the younger sort of graduates, i think that's the key thing to factor in That you weren't-. Even if you've read the textbook and you know everything. You have to actually experience it And I don't think you can get away from that time. I really don't see how you can. Even people that have families, members that are dentists I don't think you can sort of circumvent that. You have to do the time for me before you can actually feel confident to diagnose everything.
Speaker 1:I think clinical hours and volume of patients is key here, And I think that's where the NHS, I think, is really really good at providing you with that, Because you've got unlimited UDA that you can do. You've got pretty much you can do the full range of treatments on people And I think it's a good way of really kind of honing your skills before you might want to move on to something more advanced. And one of the things I noticed when I was doing some research on you is you've done quite a lot of courses, Like a lot. You're an alumni for almost all the top restorative courses. Where did that mindset come from?
Speaker 2:Yeah, again, I think you surround yourself with good people. So I had some people that I graduated with and they'd forever be doing a course here, course there. But again in my VT year I realised there were certain things I wasn't so good at. So again you find your weaknesses and obviously target them rather than run away from them. So the first one I noticed was I wasn't so good at oral surgery. I always loved doing it, but technically I wasn't so good at it. So I did a max-fax job for a year. That sort of set me down the sort of oral surgery route.
Speaker 2:Then I realised, ok, well, i need to get better restorative dentistry and understanding inclusion. So I did one of the Paul Tipton courses. That was a great foundation course for me. And then I wanted to tie in the sort of the full treatment planning and the cosmetic treatment planning. So I did the Chris Orr year-long restorative course, which for me was really when the penny just dropped, because everything then sort of sat together. You have the skills, but then also you now know how to give. You know, as I was saying, talk about offering the best. That's how Chris sort of positions it. He says this is all the research, this is the best thing for you, based on the research, based on the knowledge. I think it's quite an empowering moment when you know all the options and you can look someone and say this is the best. And again, it's very powerful tool. I think patients, once they've bought into you and they know that you're not selling something to them but you're telling them that's the best thing for them, you know genuinely, they believe it and they'll take your advice.
Speaker 1:So, at the time, who was influencing you? Was it your mentors? Was it your BT trainer? Or was it who was influencing your decision? Because a lot of the time people are perhaps either they don't want to know about their weaknesses or stay in their comfort zone. How do you think that mindset of wanting to keep improving came from? Where do you think that came from?
Speaker 2:I think it came from two places. I think certainly one of them is when you're in a room I'm sure many of us will agree with this When you're in your surgery and it's you, your nurse and the patient, there's that horrible voice sometimes that tells you is this an omelette, is this a crown? Should I do a filling? And you can't have that voice in your head all the time without knowing. So I think there is that internal battle to know what the right option is. And again, experience or time can help. But if you don't know, you know initially there's that thirst to find out what the right thing is. And also the other thing is my patients themselves, like cosmetic dentistry kind of came to me.
Speaker 2:I was just happy, you know, being a nice guy taking care of my patients, and then at the end of, let's say, a normal checkup, somebody would say what can I do about this? I don't like this, and when is that problem? or you know you want to find the solution. So that's how I started with cosmetic dentistry. You know one of my patients wanted to. You know they're smart a little bit. I was like, well, i've got to give a solution, i need to find out. So there was that sort of I think professional side of it that really came about for me. I wanted to offer my patients their solutions that they wanted.
Speaker 1:So, but was there somebody guiding you through this, or was this just your own self-directed learning? I'm thinking this is really stressful. I'm not sure what to do, perhaps, in a lot of situations. What I'm saying is where did you, where did you like, get this drive to become who you are now? Where did you get this? Yes, i come from.
Speaker 2:No, i think that's obviously a personal thing, So everyone's different, not everyone's driven in the same way And, as I said, like mine, definitely came from a position of wanting to help. But I was fortunate that the first practice I worked in in London or just outside London, in Staines, i had two fantastic, slightly older associates. One of them was called Anmore Chander and Joe Bansal. So you know, we were just basically three lightly lads And we all got on really well. But you know, their clinical standards were higher than mine And I came in as the new kid.
Speaker 2:So I think initially I wanted to, you know, keep up with them. They, you know they went on, you know courses internationally. They went to the Pankies Institute, you know, they went to the Vanini course in you know, lake Como. So you know, having those people around you definitely made me want to look further And my path is slightly different to theirs. But again, you know, it really did sort of open my eyes. Then when I heard about the Chris Orkhorse, again, joe Bansal had done the Chris Orkhorse, he told me about it. And then, from Chris Orkhorse, i did the, i joined the BACD And again, when you see somebody blowing up these slides of a tooth and it's flawless.
Speaker 2:It just makes you realize that the bar's really high, but somebody can do it. And my dad always told me, like you know, we talked about footballers and stuff and he said, listen, they go to the toilet the same as me and you. So they're not like a superhuman that you know. They may be good at something. But so I kind of thought, well, okay, i may never be brilliant at it, but I'm sure I can get better. And that was always my mindset, and I'm a super positive person. I always believe that, like, no matter where you are in life tomorrow, you can always be better. So I kept on trying and plugging away a little bit at a time.
Speaker 1:So how do you personally deal with like setbacks where something doesn't go to plan or you've had a really crap day at work or something's just balls it up, which can happen in dentistry? How do you deal with that yourself mentally?
Speaker 2:Oh, i mean, you're probably asking me at the wrong time. I'm tired and stressed at the moment. I think I'm very good at sort of closing off one day and starting a new day with a positive mindset. You know I'm a Christian, i believe in God and I believe that you know like that side of things. You know it's in the Bible, you know Jesus died for a sins. You can do whatever you want and he can renew you. So I definitely believe that That's something I use for my.
Speaker 2:So faith plays an important role for you. I think, yeah, massively. And I think you know, without. Again, i think for me I don't really look at the minutiae of the detail because I think if you look at faith and you look at who we are in the world, there are so many of us. I'm pretty insignificant in the grand scheme of things. So you know, if I bodge up a filling or if I bodge up something, in the grand scheme of things it's not that big a deal. But also then, as well as my faith, i've got my family. I've got to, you know, be there for them. So as soon as they get home I'm able to sort of switch off and be dad.
Speaker 1:Does that mean you're like your wife and perhaps you're Wife my kids siblings? Yeah, my wife and my kids.
Speaker 2:I thought you talked to you. Yeah, my wife and my kids. My poor wife probably gets it the worst because I think I'll probably come home and then I switch on daddy mode so I can be engaging with the kids as much as I can, and then when they go to bed then I probably revert back to you know, bring it on again and start and think about worse. So my poor wife probably gets the brunt of it at the moment, because that's probably my decompressing time. But I mean, we were talking about it earlier. I think I probably could, you know, look at sort of other people to talk to you. But at the moment I feel that I can sort of switch off one day and move on and, you know, use the next day as a new start, i would say.
Speaker 1:What about football? Do you play football? Do you sport? Is there anything that you do to look after yourself, like hobby-wise distraction from dentistry, things like that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i play football. I still play football, although the legs aren't what they used to be, unfortunately, although I still think I can. It's definitely not the same. Yeah, but I had like a bad like Achilles injury about maybe five years ago And that knocked me for a while because I wasn't able to exercise for probably about two or three years properly. So that was tough. But I'm back playing football now and I love it, even though, as I said, i'm not anything like I used to be. But I still want to get out there.
Speaker 2:I had a terrible game two weeks ago And, honestly, I was a foul move for the whole week, but the next week I played again and scored five goals And then I was like I'm back on track now, so I'm off again, yeah, but that's. I think that is good to have something that's a release from dentistry, because I don't know about you, do you? I find that dentistry can be quite an addictive profession. It can be all encompassing And it does worry me a little bit. So I do try and have something outside of dentistry.
Speaker 1:I think it's important, like for myself, i completely switch off. You know what works, what homes home, but obviously myself I've got both dentistry and coaching, so a lot of the time in the evenings I do spend time being ready for my clients and coaching them in the evening, so it does give you that release. But I've always had this mentality that it's different, because I understand that you're a practice owner So you can't ever switch off. In a way, you can't ever switch off because there's always problems to deal with or there's always issues to deal with.
Speaker 1:But one of the things that I always tell even my friends who are practice owners is that don't forget yourself, don't forget your health.
Speaker 1:You know money can come and go And you think I'm going to really, really work hard now because I've got kids, i've got a family, i want to give them the best life and stuff.
Speaker 1:But the kids really just remember you And if you're always going to spend that time when they're growing up at work, busy and not being available for them, they put more value on that than they do on any private education that you might be trying to force them to go down and things like that, and I think we don't really see that We just spend that time.
Speaker 1:I want to do this, i want to smash it out for my kids, i want to do it for my family. So I always say don't forget at any point your health could go and that could be the end. And you don't want to be in a position where you know and you hear it a lot especially all the generation where they used to be just work solid, solid hours. You know long, long shifts, thinking you know we're doing it for the best And then by the time they get to 50 or whatever, they have heart attacks and health problems. And you've got to remember that. You know your health, in my view, is is the most important thing, because if you lose that, you've lost everything.
Speaker 2:In my opinion, You're absolutely right And I think I think what you said about owning a practice is there is a danger there, because it is all about you initially And you kind of want to get it over the line. So you do kind of put everything in, and I was certainly guilty of that And, as I said, unfortunately for me, when I ruptured my kidneys, probably three months after opening the practice. So then I didn't have exercise as well And I just probably threw myself more into work. Yeah, no, i mean definitely I'm starting to focus a bit more on me. It is hard. I've got three kids as well, so they all need different things. My eldest is 12, so she's, you know, going through secondary school, which is in itself, has got its emotions and challenges, as we talked about earlier. So it is hard to be there for everyone all the time. And I think the practice is like a fourth child, you know it's always demanding, always asking for for stuff from you.
Speaker 1:So yeah, i must admit that you know practice ownership, one of the things that I am, one of the things I wanted to ask you, because I actually have a friend who's a practice owner And he was saying that one of the things he's struggling with now and he's got some health problems as well But one of the things he struggles with is is is sort of reducing his work workload because the patients are so used to him and he doesn't trust anyone else to do the be as good as him and he doesn't want to reduce the days He goes.
Speaker 1:I can't find someone who's going to be as good as me and all the patients will start kicking off. How do you and it's almost like I suppose it's his baby and I suppose you feel the same way You've got that attachment to the practice and attachment to the patients And it's very difficult as a suppose, as a practitioner, to be able to make those kind of decisions where you want to reduce your perhaps clinical work but then don't have perhaps people who you feel like can't find the people who are good enough to perhaps match your standards.
Speaker 2:No, it's so true, And I think you're right. Patients often want you or you've built that rapport with them, So of course they're going to want you. I've got a lot better at it over the last 18 months, delegating and actually that thing about. Are my associates as good? yeah, they are, They're really good. And I think when I say that to my patients, I do, I don't sort of just put them in and off you go. I do sort of walk them through, taking to the reception or introduce them to one of the other team.
Speaker 2:If they're in the practice together and say this person's going to do this, this and this, I do tend to still keep an overview of them. I don't send them off completely. So I'll say, look, I'll see you again in six months time. But I've got a therapist, for example, named Shayna. I'll say Shayna is going to do these restorations and then she'll book you back in to see me And I also.
Speaker 2:One of the things I do find quite empowering is I tell the patient that Shayna does my teeth or my feelings, or Lisa will do my feelings, And I think once they know that, look, I would never recommend someone that wasn't good enough. You know, I think that's again quite a powerful thing And I'm in that process now. As your friend, I'm trying to delegate more. It is hard to do, but I feel like it's necessary. And actually the funny thing is that's how you grow, because you're probably the person most qualified to take on, to grow the business. So if I can give the existing business to somebody else, I can actually bring in new income streams and new options as well.
Speaker 1:So tell us obviously a burning question of how, how did Smile Fast begin and how did that happen?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so again, it's a story that I've said several times now, but it started on a ski trip Again in this first year of me setting up the squat practice. I had all of that going on And I went on a trip with a company called CFAST, the orthodontic company, and Gary Dickinson, one of the co-owners of the company, is just a wonderful guy and a good friend of mine And he invited myself and he invited Thomas Sealy. So Tom's a fantastic dentist, one of those artists, really annoying, really good at clinical dentistry and he's just got a skill for it. And I was sitting talking to him over a glass of wine or rosé or whatever it was, and he, despite being this excellent clinician, he was not too happy with how things were going at practice for him because financially things weren't working, because he was working really long hours to produce this beautiful, stunning work but it wasn't profitable. It was burning him out, basically, and I said, look, i mean my practice, a new practice. I've got all these patients wanting cosmetic dentistry. There's a huge demand. I said there's got to be a way that we can get the quality more consistent and more reproducible without sort of it being so labor intensive. And that's kind of where the initial conversation started, and then we both went separately and we talked about looking at digital workflows And then from digital workflows we kind of created the Smalfast workflow, which is really we call it Smalfast design, smalfast refine and then obviously Smalfast direct.
Speaker 2:So we basically want our patients to be involved in that journey. And again we also found that a lot of patients didn't know what they wanted. So again we tried to create a pathway that would make it simple for them to see it, then visualize it and actually try it in their mouth before then delivering the end outcome. And that's really what Smalfast stands for. But again, initially we thought Smalfast was only going to be for a certain cohort of dentists, people wanting to do high-end work only or medium cosmetic improvements. But then what we found is that, because of the workflow, it's suitable for all different dentists skillsets.
Speaker 2:And we've got some people with masters in restorative dentistry that use Smalfast the people like Riaz Yar, john Swarbrie These are master clinicians and they use Smalfast as part of their workflow. But then, likewise, you have someone a few years qualified who doesn't know how to talk to a patient or doesn't know how to tell the patient all the options. So again. They use Smalfast as part of their pathway and hopefully it builds their confidence and also gives them that you know we were talking about earlier. Sometimes you're in that room all on your own trying to make that decision, like is it a composite bonding case, is it a ceramic case, is it an orthodontic case? So with every single Smalfast case that's submitted, we well at the design stage, we write a full case report and then we give a two-dimensional image of a cosmetic improvement So we can say you know, mr Jones, you would benefit from X, y and Z And ideally you need to treat sixth teeth or eight teeth, or two teeth or four teeth, so that it helps the dentist. Start having that conversation.
Speaker 1:And yeah, How does it feel personally, you know, when you mentioned these sort of big names in dentistry, using something that you designed and sort of founded.
Speaker 2:How do you make it feel? It's massively, massively humbling. Again, you know I'll make no bones about it, i wasn't the most gifted dentist in the world. I'd like to say that I'm pretty good now, but it took a long time, you know, and it took a lot of practice, a lot of hours and, you know, a lot of learning, as you said. you know, i went on all the courses So I got myself to a workflow that was better, was reproducible, but the problem was the time.
Speaker 2:It still took a long time. There was no getting away from that, and what Smalfast has allowed me to do in my own practice is have an option that is consistent and faster but actually the aesthetic outcomes are high and it gives me that option. But then the likes of Riaz, that can do incredible, incredible work. anyway, he uses it as part of his own material, you know, because, again, you know, one of the things is a lot of Smalfast is. we're talking about direct composite, but actually sometimes you know, it's a ceramic case. So we can use Smalfast as part of the workflow and the staged approach to maybe a full mouth rehab later down the line.
Speaker 1:One of the things I wanted to ask you was it came at exactly the right time where composite bonding was gaining traction as well. Was that like just happened, coincidentally, or how did that come about?
Speaker 2:I think we were saying weren't we, madisyn? Nothing happens coincidentally, doesn't it? It's, yeah, it looks like a coincidence, but you know, I'm sure somebody upstairs had it planned, but no, more importantly, it worked in my hands. I think that's the best way to put it. You know, i'm not trying to sell anything or trying to make other people, but it worked in my hands And that was the thing that my patients were asking for. And I think you're right. You know, probably just before lockdown. You know, composite bonding became a brand. You know people call it bonding composite. You know people haven't paid to trademark that. That's just happened. You know people talk about Invisalign and we all know how much they spend. You know, but composite bonding is probably a bigger brand than that. So you know patients want it. You know, and have you noticed as well, the demographic? it was the young. You know Instagram generation. Now I'm getting people in their 50s and 60s saying I want composite bonding, so it's a well-accepted treatment modality now.
Speaker 1:It is a predominantly UK thing, as in. It's really big in the UK and obviously other countries do do it, but it's kind of interesting. One of the interesting things I actually found out recently that there's a practice or a couple of practices that have opened nearby by a therapist and it solely does composite bonding and hygiene and whitening and I thought that's interesting because facial aesthetics, for example, and these kind of clinics are now starting to take off, but composite bonding clinics that just do composite bonding is kind of becoming a big thing. Do you see that happening in your area or do you see that happening in the future?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think there's a couple of well-known companies in the Hardish Street area that have done it as well.
Speaker 2:I mean, i must admit, i would definitely recommend Caution, because one of the things we say with Smalfast is that the majority of cases need some form of pre-alignment. So actually you can't just have that one tool, and in some cases composite is the wrong material, it needs to be ceramic. So I think if somebody's coming with one tool then it's a bit of a danger and a bit of a risk. We actually do. We have two things that we do at Smalfast.
Speaker 2:We have a dental therapist-only course which we've introduced recently to help therapists learn the whole aspects. But actually for the normal Smalfast course we ask therapists to come with a clinician from their practice because again, i think, just in terms of allowing that patient to have the gold standard or the best option, you need to have a conversation where they know all the options, not just composite bonding. So I do have quite a strong view on that. I feel that composite bonding is a great option And I think therapists, for example, are more than capable. I've got a therapist. They're absolutely fantastic with composite work. But the patient needs to know all the options first.
Speaker 1:And the sort of business learning that went on, obviously when you first came up with this idea. You know obviously then. So I saw some posts where it went to the US and sort of globally how, how did that come about? You know the the spread of it and and how did you market and how did you there was a lot of Suppose things that happen for things to be where they are now. How did that all happen for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I mentioned early Gary Dickinson's. Gary's I would call him a mentor. You know We're talking about. You know what do you need. Gary's, a business mentor is, is fantastic guys, incredibly humble and but his knowledge in dentistry is huge. He knows sort of different aspects of the dental business world and I think we as dentists you know our good at dentistry So we had to make a solution that was, you know, robust enough that many other dentists would find it Appealing.
Speaker 2:Once we had that, then Gary was able to open up you know contacts with, you know, some of the, some of the big marketing companies in the UK and then from there, you know, we had a. He had a connection in the, the United States, and we just did like an exploratory trial with some kols in America. We got them in a room together, said, well, does this work? Obviously, and American English, or American dental English, is very different to the UK dental English. So we tested it and actually there was an appetite, and you're right to say that. You know the UK composite bondings a thing. But if I, if I asked you, medici, if it was your teeth and you wanted an improvement And you had to drill your teeth, or if you wanted to just add something onto them. What would you choose first?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It's definitely a treatment.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a A solution or And it definitely can work.
Speaker 1:One of the things I wanted to ask you and you might have experienced it is Criticism, because it's very common in dentistry for people to bring each other down, especially when this is what he else doing, being successful or doing something well And and the dental community isn't isn't that receptive to people doing well?
Speaker 1:generally, on the whole, and Probably even at the start, you may have got a lot of criticism and even still, like one of the things I saw recently on on on Facebook and I know obviously it's not a good representation, but there were dentists calling certain organizations out and creating a post about how It was regarding some CP, these certificates that they hadn't received, and I Just didn't like the tone or language that was used. And you think these are your fellow colleagues. There's no need for this kind of behavior. I'm sure you guys consult this out rather than harm the reputation of that individual or the actual Organization itself. Well, what are your thoughts on that and how do you deal with perhaps criticism or people who perhaps a negative or Give negative energy towards perhaps some of the things that you really love?
Speaker 2:Yeah, i mean, you're right, We did have, you know, quite a lot of them flack, initially at the early stages. And again, you know, from time to time we'll get people saying you know F1, you know X, y and Z, or you know, this happened, that happened. I think it's human nature. You know dentistry isn't yes, it's a profession, but I think you know a lot of people, you know it's the human nature. People You know shout out about bad news more than they necessarily shout about good news, and that's something that's definitely true. And I must admit, when it first happened, and particularly Tom And he got a bit of backlash and I felt like I had to defend him and it was kind of like, you know, standing up for my friend. But then then, after a while, we've got some slightly more personal and maybe you know people that were targeting you know The concepts and saying it's not gonna work, it's not gonna do this, and I and I get that, and there are mistakes that we've made as well. I think the one thing that I've always tried to do is to be honest and also to be quite humble because, as I said, i'm no better than anybody else. I'm not trying to be better than anybody else. I've got a solution that definitely works in my hands. It improves, you know, my workflow. Yeah, there'll be mistakes that we make, you know, and I'll always own up to that.
Speaker 2:But the one thing that you know we set we set up a smile fast is we really really do have an ethos for caring, and That means for the dentist as well. So, you know, we've got this support network, we've got this group, you know, and the cases, as I said, is assessed by not just one dentist, sometimes it's two or three clinicians and we genuinely want to help. If it was about making money, we just let every case go through. So actually, about 10 to 15 percent of cases admitted, we decline and we say, look, this isn't the right case, this isn't the right treatment. So you know, if someone who thinks that maybe our are When monetary driven, that they're completely wrong where we're about ethical dentistry and trying to give patients the right things, i think if you stick, stay true to our morals, then you know the good the truth comes out.
Speaker 2:And I'll just mention one scenario. There was someone who wrote a pretty derogatory post about smile fast and one of the big Facebook groups and I took the time to reply and you know I explained the bits that I knew and I apologize to the bits that maybe I've missed or we had missed, and I mean name his name. But then within maybe three months He were replied back to me privately. He retracted it privately, but now he's sending more smile fast cases than he's ever sent before. So again, i think Dentistry can be like that. But you know, fast, if we stick to our sort of morals and ethos, i think we'll, we'll do okay.
Speaker 1:Excellent, excellent and, in terms of my first, obviously it's still evolving, still improving, still getting better. And I know you mentioned you've got an event on Saturday. Did you say you're at the weekend? Are you looking forward to that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're looking for it immensely, and so that's the style also event with them, walter Devota and style Italiano, and Again, and you know it's quite humbling when you hear about these guys, and then they come on your course and then, before you know it, you know You're doing collaboration together and again, i think you know what's that, you know necessities, a mother of invention, or you know, and The treat is, if there's a problem in dentistry, we can find solutions.
Speaker 2:And then what came on our course? He liked a lot of what we did and he came up with the solution that we, you know, we've amalgamated and sort of trying to present as a new solution or, again, you know, fixing some of the problems that we may have with direct composite and with indirect composite. Restorations are, you know, more affordable, minimely invasive and actually give almost, you know, instant or immediate results as well. So we're trying to sort of give people solutions and, like you said, there's never one answer But, you know, might be something that fits into this solution or this part of your armamentarium. So it's nice to have different strings to your bow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting because I believe and even in business, the guys at the top They're not competing with each other, they're collaborating and making each other better in a way and sort of there's always things you can Learn from each other, even though they might seem like your company, your competitors. A lot of the best ideas come from each other And I think if we adopted that kind of attitude where we all want everyone to be successful and do well, it's not a competition. We're all dentists, we all. We all earn good money, we all can and good money, we've all got excellent skill sets. So for me it's it's not a competition, but one thing that obviously a lot of the dentists as well nowadays posting, for example, instagram. You know photos and and and good on them. But one thing you have to question is what is the purpose of it? You know, and if it is that you're doing it out of like a feeling of needing to compete with other people, then I think it's coming from the wrong place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, totally. I mean that's very interesting because I don't post a lot on on social media But I do post cases through my, my work, instagram and I think you're right because that's for patients. So it's in its education. I think that's very clear. But I think a lot of dentists do post for other dentists and then you've got to ask yourself questions a lot of, unless you want to go into sort of teaching. It's a lot of effort for for what reason? I think you know that self-critification or all that need for sort of Consensus is a little bit. It's unhealthy. If I'm honest, it's probably not necessary. I think it from an education point of view if you post your best work and say, look how I've improved, or Self-reflection, then yeah I get it, but otherwise it's a little bit strange, i think there's a culture, especially amongst associates now, to create their own Instagram page, their own Instagram Accounts and post these high-end cases.
Speaker 1:You know, obviously, as a practice owner, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Because the thing is, obviously there might be the feeling that that associate might end up leaving But then sort of gained a lot from, i suppose, you working at your practice, for example, and the danger, i suppose, for a principle is that you build this associate up to a certain standard, really helping get going, and then at some point they might just leave. How do you personally or I mean obviously professionally how do you handle that scenario And how do you deal with that? Do you encourage your associates to do that, or would you encourage your associates to?
Speaker 2:do that. I think I've got a different mindset too. I think you know what? I don't know anybody. They're all entitled to do what they want, and good for them. And I think having their own Instagram, i think, good for them. I think, ultimately, if you're good at something, you showcase something And they can bring that to the practice Brilliant. Yeah, they might move on, but that's life And I think I would never hold anyone back. What I would hope is that we are respectful And then while they're in my practice, they are the best version of themselves And if it is that in due course, they find or they want something better, then that's great.
Speaker 2:There are some people who are always looking for the next opportunity And they never want to settle, and actually you probably want them out of the practice anyway. So I think for me, i don't really dwell or worry. I've had lots of different clinicians come to my practice and say, oh, they're going to stay for X number of years And then some of them haven't. That's fine, but again, i think one thing I would say is every single associate that's left my practice I'm still on good terms with. I can call them up And also, i bet you karma, they've got my back, i've got their back. I'd like to think that, yeah, somebody might go off and try to take patients, but in the grand scheme of things, there's plenty of patients anyway. I'd rather that we have a good rapport, good understanding. I'll shake them by the hand And hopefully they've helped to grow my practice while they're there. That's the way I'd look at it. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to keep hold of them all. No, i don't buy that.
Speaker 1:So the setting up of your squat practice how was that a natural progression? Were you always going to be a practice owner? How did that come about? Yeah, i think.
Speaker 2:I was. I mean, I think my problem was I was waiting for an opportunity, And I think that's one thing I think I've learned in life. And again, Gary, Gary gets a lot of shoutouts, but it's true because he kind of he's just a he grabs an opportunity and he makes it happen. And I think I waited a few too many years for someone to give me an opportunity when I realized I had to do it myself And due to my financial circumstances, I didn't have any sort of huge savings, So buying an existing practice at the time was really tough. So I went about doing a squat practice and it was the single best thing I ever did.
Speaker 2:I will go and qualify that by saying, in the climate that we are in now, it's a lot more challenging And I think, with interest rates. And I was talking to a young dentist just before I call actually a young chap in the North and he might be listening, but I was telling him look, you have to make sure you've got all your ducks in a row now, because it's not as easy. It really isn't a squat practice. However, I do find that many people that buy an existing practice come with it, comes with their own challenges. Yes, the cash flows there from the beginning, but then you may want to make a lot of changes. You may need to change the climate and the ethos of the team. So it doesn't necessarily mean it's easier, It's just different set of challenges.
Speaker 1:So did you buy? was it a freehold? Did you buy the building? Is that at the time or was it?
Speaker 2:a leasehold.
Speaker 2:So again I had to try and keep because I didn't know if it was going to work And for the first six months I was going to bed about two or three o'clock every night just praying that there was enough money in the bank. So it's not for everybody, it's certainly not for the faint-hearted, it's also probably not for people who aren't naturally charismatic. I think if you're not good with people talking to people, then don't do it, because you have to basically appeal to people to buy into your services. So if you're not a natural, that's probably the wrong way to do it. So I went. I try to keep my risk low. So it was a freehold property, it was very close to home, so again there were things that made it easier to do.
Speaker 1:So you continued your associate job whilst building this practice.
Speaker 2:Yes, i did And again, i was quite fortunate. I told my principles at the time of my intentions. We'd been together for a very long time and I told them look, this is what I want to do. And initially I think they were a bit unsure how it would work, but they did allow me to stay on And I think it was beneficial to both. I think in hindsight I think I probably could have just made the move sooner And I think that's, hindsight's, a wonderful thing. I think I would probably have been more successful faster if I had, but there was just too much fear involved And I think I was looking at the bank account going down.
Speaker 1:I thought I'm not quite ready. You need the cash flow, don't you? You've got your children your family. Can't really afford to not have that money coming in or having that sort of thing. So it's kind of natural to feel that fear, And probably the first three to four years, I would imagine, are the worst and things generally get better after those three, four years. you're kind of defined out what you're made of in a way, literally that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I remember now, even being on holiday. You know what you're saying about making time for yourself, logging in from holiday, checking everything, emailing. My wife was just beside herself like come on. And even the practice, they were like just it's fine, but it is like a child, there's no getting away from it. It's the thing that's always there, it always needs feeding, always needs some attention. But again, it's also massively rewarding When you look back. I mean, there was a point where I knew every single patient in the practice. You know everyone came and see me. Now I looked at the practice and I don't know half of them. I've never met them. You know, and that's quite. You know quite. It's overwhelming actually when you look back and think, gosh, i started this. But also you know what you said about delegating and empowering. It's important to empower the team to grow their own practice within your practice. And I feel like we're almost there now.
Speaker 1:So where do you see the future for yourself? What kind of goals do you have in life as well as dentistry?
Speaker 2:In life. I want to be the best dad that I can be. I want my children to experience things that I didn't experience or wasn't able to experience. I want them to go into dentistry. I wouldn't not encourage them, so I mean, if they wanted to, then yeah, i think it's a great career, but again, i'd like them to see what it is, and if they felt they were passionate about it, i'd be happy for them to go into dentistry. I think dentistry can afford us a great lifestyle. I think the problem with dentistry is that we dentists are addicted, and I think if I could turn back the clock, if I could have a lifestyle where I worked maybe three days clinically and two days doing something that's like yourself, i think I'd be happy. So maybe I'm going to become a coach. That's what I'm going to do next.
Speaker 1:I'd better watch out then I'm still going to go to the toilet. We'll work together. Collaboration, like we said, not competition. Yeah, exactly, Absolutely, I mean ideally. I think every dentist in the country, if you ask them, they'd say three days of, or five days of, clinical dentistry. I'll just kill you off.
Speaker 1:There's no one who can genuinely put their hand on heart and say you know what I can do five days and I love it and I don't get stressed and I'm absolutely fine with it. There's no one who'll be able to say that in the whole country. So I do think that dentists themselves need to, because it's kind of a stressful environment and subconsciously I feel like it does damage your health. We don't realize it, but it does damage your health because of the stress levels, even little things And we don't realize. it's just internally, subconscious, where we've got to deal with that. This has happened, that feeling you did come out, whatever kind of thing that I mean difficult extraction. So you're internally getting stressed but you don't realize the damage it's doing on your body and things. So it's a really kind of stressful job in a way. I also wanted to ask you obviously I know you're a big football fan. I saw that. I know you treat Brentford players as well How's that working out for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, do you know what it's? again, i was gonna say coincidence, but I'm sure these things are meant to be, but honestly, it's my biggest passion. Football And working with the football is just like a release for me. My nurses hate it because all I do is talk about football rather than the actual job in hand, but I absolutely love it And, yeah, it's been an honor.
Speaker 2:I've been working with Brentford for five years now And I'm gonna say I'm a proper because I was there when they were in the championship, before all this premiership stuff happened.
Speaker 2:So, but it's nice And I feel actually not just honored, i feel like I actually make a difference, because there's some of these young guys. They've come from not the best backgrounds and they've not necessarily taken care of themselves at all, and some of them you'd be quite surprised they need obviously reparative work and it can be quite a lot of it. So it's actually nice to actually make a difference and also for their own physical wellbeing, because obviously we know that the importance of oral health, reducing the bacterial load as well I mean it has an impact on their performance. But also then the cosmetic side. I've done some smile, fast kisses for some of these guys And again some of them. You used to smile like that and then you see them beaming everywhere and some of them have gone on to play for England and I'm taking credit for that as well. So it's a powerful thing. Dentistry is health, but it's also the impact on the wellbeing's massive as well.
Speaker 1:What was it like meeting Garas Southgate? I saw that on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i was. actually I was probably more starstruck meeting Garas Southgate surprisingly, yeah, and he's a very nice chap. So my brother-in-law this is my name drop and my brother-in-law used to play professionally. He played for Newcastle United, so he gets these tickets to the England matches and Garas Southgate was there and I thought you've got to ask a question. So I went and got the autograph and, yeah, it was pretty cool actually.
Speaker 1:And the selfie though. Yeah, exactly, exactly Good. So, yeah, we're coming towards the end of the podcast. If you could just give us some lasting thoughts that you perhaps want to send out to people watching this, you know, i suppose, inspirational, motivational things that you think that are going to help the younger dentists or younger healthcare professionals, and things that you perhaps look back and learn and lessons that you've learned from.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i think you know well. First of all, thanks for having me on. I hope it's been useful. You know I feel like I'm a regular dentist like everyone else. But I think you know having this attitude to excellence and also maybe not feeling like you can't achieve anything because I know that some people may feel they're stuck in maybe the NHS rut or they're just stuck in a rut as a whole I think you know having the mindset that you can do anything you want in dentistry. You can be anything you want and you can be better, but also being happy with what you've got as well.
Speaker 2:Mental health is like you kind of alluded to and the stress in dentistry is real. You know we get paid fantastically well for what we do and but you can use it to make the rest of your day better as well. So you don't have to focus And I think sometimes we focus so much on the tooth. You need to step back and actually look at the patient and look at them as a whole and actually just try to make a difference in that person's life. And I think sometimes we dentists we beat ourselves up if the you know, the contact point isn't tight enough or the occlusion.
Speaker 2:I had to adjust the occlusion too much and actually I think you know it's a tooth you know like can the patient eat as long as you're not causing them pain? Do the best that you can and also keep trying to improve. I think they're the things that I'd take home, but also I think you actually alluded to it. I think you know, be sort of in an environment where you can share knowledge and actually, rather than trample it all over somebody else, just try and lift up other people, because it actually feels pretty good And we were talking about it earlier as well. I'm sure that when you do that in some way, some shape or form, it'll come back to you as well.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Thanks for watching, guys. That's the end of episode five. We've got two exciting episodes next week. I'll let you know later in the week who those are. Thanks, thanks, Meade, for coming on the show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, buddy.
Speaker 1:Take care, take care, thanks, bye.